How will Ret Pallies justify their raid spot?

[Theloras]

oh and how about this nef fight:

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 61&Fight=7

I have to admit, that number inflation from 20% adds are pretty huge for pally with a clutch holy wrath&holy water combo. I assume you bubble while you do it so you don't instagib.

This was me as PROT spec several months ago when I raided with the "short bus guild" that is Chimaera:

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 05&Fight=8

Anyway, I would AoE tank one of the add spawn alcoves with a Prot Warrior in phase 1 - I would drop consecrate in the alcove and AoE tank the minor elites while the Prot War would taunt off the Chromatic ones.

Once Nefarian landed and all of the adds were dead, I would equip Nightfall and single target melee DPS with it until around 25% when I would break off and prepare for phase 3 undead add spawns.

At 20% when the undead adds spawn, I would AoE tank and kill all of them singlehandedly with Holy Wrath + Strat Holy Water + Consecrate and Force Reactive Disk. Doing it this way allows the rest of the DPS to single target focus Nefarian the rest of the way down.

[smilkovpetko]

I'd link you some raidstats from our feenix boss kills but according to duki they are invalid, which is of course a very ignorant thing to say. Yeah ret paladins were sadly neglected over on warsong etc but overall class/core mechanics were really good, especially the last year. It's also funny how you two hate feenix considering some of the bugs you are struggling with here actually got fixed over there. Probably the biggest that were still present at the time of feenix converting their 1.12 realms to tbc was SoC spellpower scaling and sanctity aura.

As we both know :
Seal of Command didn't work there with Spell Damage , unlike that here not that just work with Spell Damage , it also gives 100% coefficient from Holy Damage

Judgement of Command is same story there , while here it still benefit low from Spell Damage , it also gives 100% coefficient from Holy Damage and thus as bonus here it work with Sanctity Aura

Consecration there was kinda static 80 dmg/tick + 5% coefficient from spell damage , the average there you could go 120-150 / tick with heavy spell damage gear etc
Meanwhile here you can go over 200 even without Spell Damage Gear on you.

That's the reason i say that we should not compare both , because here you would preform twice higher if you do exactly the same as there.

[Imbaslap]

oh and how about this nef fight:

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 61&Fight=7

I have to admit, that number inflation from 20% adds are pretty huge for pally with a clutch holy wrath&holy water combo. I assume you bubble while you do it so you don't instagib.

This was me as PROT spec several months ago when I raided with the "short bus guild" that is Chimaera:

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 05&Fight=8

Anyway, I would AoE tank one of the add spawn alcoves with a Prot Warrior in phase 1 - I would drop consecrate in the alcove and AoE tank the minor elites while the Prot War would taunt off the Chromatic ones.

Once Nefarian landed and all of the adds were dead, I would equip Nightfall and single target melee DPS with it until around 25% when I would break off and prepare for phase 3 undead add spawns.

At 20% when the undead adds spawn, I would AoE tank and kill all of them singlehandedly with Holy Wrath + Strat Holy Water + Consecrate and Force Reactive Disk. Doing it this way allows the rest of the DPS to single target focus Nefarian the rest of the way down.

so in essence, utility damage on nefarian himself, and mostly damage control on adds to say the least.
pretty much what a prot pally is good at. (especially undead ones).
the problem is bragging about the high dps over your entire raid when you're basically aoeing majority of the fight. it's not that you're better then them, its just that you had huge inflation from aoeing everything.

[Theloras]

I never said I was better than anyone, merely pointing out what that a PvP Prot spec'd Paladin could still do good overall dmg in that fight. But yes, in AoE fights we scale exceptionally well - on that there is no argument.

Smiter on the other hand is deep Ret spec and while he does do similar AoE during phase 1 and phase 3 (although he doesn't have Force Reactive Disk), he is still supremely viable and came first in overall DPS for single target against Nefarian himself.

Similarly, he doesn't AoE tank the undead add spawn by himself, all of the casters break off with him in order to do it whereas I would do it by myself since I was already in mostly tanking gear anyway.

[Softarunt]

Consecration was doing more than blizzlike damage on feenix too due to some base damage bug.

Killerduki if you believe "proper paladin dps" should be about double of what I saw on feenix you're an idiot, but I already knew that.

Also, I'm not here to argue exact numbers, rather to let people know that they can't compete with real dps even in naxx. I just don't want you to give out false hope

[JCarrill0]

Consecration was doing more than blizzlike damage on feenix too due to some base damage bug.

Killerduki if you believe "proper paladin dps" should be about double of what I saw on feenix you're an idiot, but I already knew that.

Also, I'm not here to argue exact numbers, rather to let people know that they can't compete with real dps even in naxx. I just don't want you to give out false hope

It seems your just here to argue period.
If Duki wants to believe let him believe, whats the issue with it? (besides you stated you think he is an idiot so why bother at all)

[smilkovpetko]

Consecration was doing more than blizzlike damage on feenix too due to some base damage bug.

Killerduki if you believe "proper paladin dps" should be about double of what I saw on feenix you're an idiot, but I already knew that.

Also, I'm not here to argue exact numbers, rather to let people know that they can't compete with real dps even in naxx. I just don't want you to give out false hope

Look i am maybe an idiot , but you are not well known or familiar with our abilities at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_YEl0Yp8I
This is how much Consecration doing in Peenix with 200 Spell Damage

This is number that can be achieved here in Nostalrius without 200 Spell Damage
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img921/2990/f3iptJ.jpg

Nostalrius:
Seal of Command working with Spell Damage , gets 100% coefficient from Holy Damage .

Peenix:
Seal of command doesn't work with Spell Damage , gets 29% coefficient from Holy Damage and can "Full Resist" in addition (which made it's crits worse damage due to "resist" like spell instead dodge/parry/block).

Reason for lower Crits : http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-realm-test/391.htm
3/15/2005 3:36:38 PM PST

After considering the posts in this thread we have decided to back this change out of patch 1.3.0 completely and re-evaluate the math behind this before making any further changes.

This has mainly been decided because depending on how much crit% the Paladin has with melee vs. spells, this change would have been either a buff or a nerf to the skill:

Based on the change that was made (changing the defense category against the skill from melee to magic), this would have increased the Paladin's DPS by 16%. This is based on the notion that chance to resist against even con is 4% as opposed to about 20% chance to Dodge/Block/Parry/Miss. As a result, if a Paladin had less than a 20% crit chance to spells, this would have been a buff to the skill.

On the other hand, changing the defense category from melee to magic also affected crit damage. Spells cause 50% more damage and melee causes 100% more damage. As a result, Paladins that had a higher than 20% crit chance to spells would have considered this change a nerf to the skill.

Since some Paladins have managed to reach this level of spell crit% and have specifically specced themselves this way, we have decided not to change this for patch 1.3.0.

Thanks to you all for the feedback on this change.

https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=3602
Sadly someone is trying to remove this and nerf it (even here) and for some reason they Confirmed even that i posted evidence with video from 2006 that report should be "invalid" or we will issue Nerf.

Judgement of Command:
Peenix - didn't scale with Spell Damage,Holy damage scale 43% , didn't work with sanctity aura , 40% of the time it would waste mana but does no damage (bugged) even as hit cap etc .

Nostalrius - scale low with Spell Damage , scale 100% with Holy Damage , work with sanctity aura , work properly with hit rating gear .


Idiot or not you have the evidence here ^ .
(all i said is that in Nostalrius Paladin would do twice more DPS than Peenix)

[Theloras]

Consecration was doing more than blizzlike damage on feenix too due to some base damage bug.

Not after the peenix core merge, which was like two and a half years ago dude so try again bro...

You may not like Duki or myself (which I couldn't care less about) but it doesn't mean that we aren't correct.

[smilkovpetko]

Consecration was doing more than blizzlike damage on feenix too due to some base damage bug.

Not after the peenix core merge, which was like two and a half years ago dude so try again bro...

You may not like Duki or myself (which I couldn't care less about) but it doesn't mean that we aren't correct.

He is kinda correct in some way regarding Consecration.

Meanwhile every other abilities was doing much higher dps than Nost or Peenix which grant us far more DMG than currently we got.

edited = fixed my mistake

[Softarunt]

I'm not so much interested in how things work currently but rather how they are supposed to be working, which is for instance why the attack power scaling on consecration is bothering me.

My apologies if I got you wrong now Duki but isn't Seal of Command supposed to scale with 29% of + holy spell bonuses, and not 100%