Questions on Paladin Leveling: 20-30

[Kazarak]

So I just got Consecration on my Paladin, and Holy Light! That makes questing/leveling soooo much easier! So what is recommended from here? Here's what I'm thinking currently:

Spells:

Retribution Aura (damage shield)
Blessing of Wisdom (mana regen)
Seal of the Crusader (for single target DPS)
Consecration (for AoE DPS)
Food, scrolls & pots (for STR, HP, armor, Spirit, etc.)

Gear:

2-hander (for single target DPS)
Strength and Stamina armor (for DPS and HP)
Dynamite (for pulling)

Macros:
I have most of my combat buffs macroed to start combat. that's one less key I have to click to get the killing started.

The Plan:
Wade into groups of mobs and not die. The second part is important!

Talents:
I'm thinking of working down the Retribution tree to get Seal of Command. I'm an engineer, so stunning people in PvP with bombs is a great way to get that double damage from Judging SoC!



On a side note, Consecration says it's supposed to do 64 damage over 8 seconds. I'm seeing it tick for 19 or 20 damage every second. Is this a bug or working as intended? I'm not a math wizard, but 8 * 20 != 64...

Thanks in advance!

[Kazarak]

Alternatively, I was considering going sword 'n board (hammer 'n board?) and working my way down the Protection tree to focus on the, "Not dying" part of The Plan.

[kuurtzen]

Don't tell anyone but concecration damage scales with AP

[Kazarak]

Don't tell anyone but concecration damage scales with AP

So increasing my Strength makes Consecration tick harder? Good to know!

[Kazarak]

Considering Consecration scales off of Attack Power, I think I should have Blessing of Might up instead of Blessing of Wisdom; and go at least 8 points into the Retribution tree to get Improved Blessing of Might and Improved Seal of the Crusader. At that point, I can weigh options about going into the Protection tree or continuing down the Retribution tree.

[kuurtzen]

Sure as I've heard benediction doesn't even work also a little bird told me crusader seal damage doesn't decay over time, making it much stronger than intended

[tobor]

What should really happen is that the +40% attack speed is countered by 0.6x melee damage done.
From 1.2.2 notes:
Seal of the Crusader: Fixed a bug where damage per swing was increasing instead of decreasing when Seal of the Crusader was active.This resulted in a dramatic increase in damage per second (DPS) that was unintended. The tooltip for the spell displays the intent of the spell:
"Fills the Paladin with the spirit of a crusader, granting additional attack power. The Paladin also attacks faster, but deals less damage with each attack."
The overall increase in DPS from Seal of the Crusader should only result from the increase in attack power and not from the increase in attack speed. We understand this is a significant decrease in the power of this spell, but was a necessary bug fix to ensure both overall game balance and the viability of different Paladin Seals.

As far as I remember and know, SotCr was always kind of rubbish as a damage seal, only used for the judgement or the novelty/utility of the fast attack speed. I am 99% sure that it should be like the notes state: +40% attack speed countered by -40% damage, with a slight increase in damage due to the AP boost.

[Kazarak]

What should really happen is that the +40% attack speed is countered by 0.6x melee damage done.
From 1.2.2 notes:
Seal of the Crusader: Fixed a bug where damage per swing was increasing instead of decreasing when Seal of the Crusader was active.This resulted in a dramatic increase in damage per second (DPS) that was unintended. The tooltip for the spell displays the intent of the spell:
"Fills the Paladin with the spirit of a crusader, granting additional attack power. The Paladin also attacks faster, but deals less damage with each attack."
The overall increase in DPS from Seal of the Crusader should only result from the increase in attack power and not from the increase in attack speed. We understand this is a significant decrease in the power of this spell, but was a necessary bug fix to ensure both overall game balance and the viability of different Paladin Seals.

As far as I remember and know, SotCr was always kind of rubbish as a damage seal, only used for the judgement or the novelty/utility of the fast attack speed. I am 99% sure that it should be like the notes state: +40% attack speed countered by -40% damage, with a slight increase in damage due to the AP boost.

This is getting a little off topic from the point of this thread. That being said, a Paladin was my first toon on the day WoW went live. I only played him up to level 35 or so before switching to Horde because that's where all the "cool" kids were; but I remember this being how SotC worked on live.

Considering how everyone says Paladin DPS sucks - don't start! - and that they are the second slowest leveling class in the game, I really hope they don't "fix" this.

[DrearyYew]

Problem with that SotC source is that we have 1.12.1 talents and spells, and SotC was changed many times throughout Vanilla into what we have now. This makes Paladin DPS significantly higher in MC than what is was back when MC was current content in retail. This is also why the mentality that "Rets are useless" is a fucking retarded mentality.

SotC doesn't increase haste by 40% and decrease damage by 40%, it increases haste by 40% and has a small penalty to the AP scaling on white swings. This is because every Paladin and their mother asked Blizzard for more DPS in Vanilla, and they finally did later in Vanilla.

[tobor]

This is getting a little off topic from the point of this thread. That being said, a Paladin was my first toon on the day WoW went live. I only played him up to level 35 or so before switching to Horde because that's where all the "cool" kids were; but I remember this being how SotC worked on live.

Considering how everyone says Paladin DPS sucks - don't start! - and that they are the second slowest leveling class in the game, I really hope they don't "fix" this.

Yeah it becomes a bit OT but if it still is like that (haven't played here for quite a while) then it should be an excellent damage seal for leveling. The only downside really is that you can't get a quick burst of damage with a judgement, have to change seal first for that.

Another thing to consider is the five second rule. I used BoW and cast my spells in bursts to let mana regenerate, so I rarely needed to drink. SotC works well with that, if you judge whenever possible with Righteousness to maximize damage, it'll put a real dent into your mana regeneration. Also I second on Consecration, I don't know if it's supposed to do this much either, but I consider it essential for all leveling builds. Same with Spiritual Focus, trying to cast anything without it is just rubbish.

As for pallies being bad at leveling, eh, I've leveled several holy paladins to late 40s/early 50s in various 1x vanilla servers before getting bored with the flaws of each server. It definitely wasn't the class that kept me down. Play to your strengths, you can easily deal with multiple mobs and you'll have a hard time getting killed. Then again it's ages since I played another class much in vanilla so I might not have good points of reference. Imo it's the Priests that are just absolute bores to level, I don't think I've ever managed to get one above 10.

Problem with that SotC source is that we have 1.12.1 talents and spells, and SotC was changed many times throughout Vanilla into what we have now. This makes Paladin DPS significantly higher in MC than what is was back when MC was current content in retail. This is also why the mentality that "Rets are useless" is a fucking retarded mentality.

SotC doesn't increase haste by 40% and decrease damage by 40%, it increases haste by 40% and has a small penalty to the AP scaling on white swings. This is because every Paladin and their mother asked Blizzard for more DPS in Vanilla, and they finally did later in Vanilla.

I see? If so then my sources are lacking. Is there a good place to check for vanilla era patch history regarding spells, items, etc.? The vanilla wiki is really incomplete, it seems to have been copied from around the time of Cataclysm or WotLK and a lot of the information seems conflicting. Doesn't help that the Wayback Machine only has bits and pieces of the old forums.
Well I found this...
http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fo ... 46157&h=50
It seems that there was a buff of some kind in 1.12, but it looks like it concerns the order of operations and not the damage penalty. The official 1.12 notes make mention of a change in the haste system, so it could be related to that too. I didn't do any real math here, just looked at the character sheet before/after casting SotC and noticed a damage boost AND the faster attack speed. Obviously that should be a significant increase to DPS.

The situation with SotC is so messy I don't know what to believe anymore, but if still is that good then by all means use it, enjoy it while it lasts. Try everything and see what works best, pallies have a lot of options with seals and judgements.