Ideal PvPvE Spec?

[Lexi]

I've sitting at the Paladin Trainer for almost an hour now, going back and forth on what a "best" or "ideal" spec would be at this point, taking into all the current bugs.

I've play Protection Reckoning spec leveling to 60, and then played the popular/standard Prot tanking spec for awhile and now I'm ready to move on to some Ret action!

This is tricky for me, because yes, I know there are defined separate builds for PvE Ret and PvP Ret, but I'd like the "best of both worlds" kind of build I'm no theorycrafter by any stretch of the imagination, and I know many of you are pretty brilliant at it.

I've been trying to tinkering with this spec: https://en.nostalrius.org/talents/palad ... 0510003150

Credit to idk, but probably one of the usual suspects smilkovpetko, JCar, Theo, etc. Anyways, I like that it's damage oriented with healing potential for me and others, but I really want points in 2H Specialization (I can get my hands on The Unstoppable Force to get started in Ret'ing! right away) ! So this one by smilkovpetko might be best: https://en.nostalrius.org/talents/palad ... 3512202051 (but not great in PvE?)

Any thoughts? Will this spec untinkered work fine for my goals of:
Probably not raiding but if the guild lets me I'd need to have the tools to contribute. But I spend a lot of my play time in the BGs too!

Any help appreciated as I think others might be interested in a spec where we could get decent (not ideal) results both in PvE as well PvP.

[Nugeneration]

If you want a DPS/Healer spec that can perform "ok" at healing in raids your going to want the improved holy light/flash of light talent. You can drop spiritual focus as it isn't really needed as Ret in pvp.

The thing about pseudo specs are you're going to half ass at something. In your case raid damage. You're missing key hit % talents from Prot and pursuit of justice which is almost a must have for Ret in pve/pvp.

The best news is with a full set of healing gear your only difference in a full holy pally and you will be improved blessings/utility. You're only missing out on 5% crit for healing spells. All things considered you're out put should be marginally different since you'll be hitting the same numbers as they are. Your crit is less so you will need to compensate with extra mana pots/runes.

Edit: People confuse what being a hybrid role is in vanilla. In vanilla hybrid specs/classes aren't made to do a little bit of everything in a single fight. They are designed around changing their gear and swapping their roles per fight.

For example the Holy/Prot can alter a few of their Prot talents to pick up imp righteous fury and aoe tank BWL/AQ/Naxx trash just fine with simple gear swaps. They aren't going to be tanking Bosses, but they can effectively hold trash and adds just find if needed. Same with a druid.

Gear has more to do with roles than what most talents do in pve.

[Lexi]

If you want a DPS/Healer spec that can perform "ok" at healing in raids your going to want the improved holy light/flash of light talent. You can drop spiritual focus as it isn't really needed as Ret in pvp.

The thing about pseudo specs are you're going to half ass at something. In your case raid damage. You're missing key hit % talents from Prot and pursuit of justice which is almost a must have for Ret in pve/pvp.

The best news is with a full set of healing gear your only difference in a full holy pally and you will be improved blessings/utility. You're only missing out on 5% crit for healing spells. All things considered you're out put should be marginally different since you'll be hitting the same numbers as they are. Your crit is less so you will need to compensate with extra mana pots/runes.

Edit: People confuse what being a hybrid role is in vanilla. In vanilla hybrid specs/classes aren't made to do a little bit of everything in a single fight. They are designed around changing their gear and swapping their roles per fight.

Thanks for replying! I had thought Spiritual Focus would help in PvP but surely wouldn't mind dropping it for bigger heals in Healing Light. Losing the 3% hit from Prot hurts, but really can't shave anything out to make this "half ass" pseudo spec work

In the second build I posted, using that with points shifted from Spiritual Focus to Healing Light would get 3/3 2h Spec and Sanc. Aura! That's exciting...kinda.

[Nugeneration]

Make sure you have 5/5 illumination as will have to have that for any serious pve where you role swap between damage or healing. Drop vindication from Ret it is pretty useless in both pve and pvp.

I'd use something more like http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0uzxZZtf0trcqo repentance or divine favor is totally up to you on which you'd prefer.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0uZVbZtf0trcq if you want to favor damage you can drop consecration if you don't want it for pvp/5mans since it is useless in raids and pick up the last 1%hit or repentance for pvp.

I'd still take consecration for the utility outside of raid personally. Just make sure you pack lots of mana pots and runes if you plan to heal/cleanse. Again you'll have the same healing numbers as a holy pally, but you also lose out on sustain. Should be fine with smart mana management though FoL is extremely efficient.

Sorry for all the edits at work currently.

[smilkovpetko]

Lexi the spec you link are from the retail paladin Geld back in 2006 ® in Blizzard forums.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=25503

Each of his spec have different purpose.

If you want to see my PVE and PVP spec for whatever purpose you are at .

Feel free to check this :

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 30#p180861

p.s Healing Light 3/3 does not and should never scale with spell damage or + Healing .

It gives only flat 12% increased heal to Holy and Flash of light.

Spiritual focus is good to prevent interruptions when you heal . (such as cleaves , aoe spells etc) .

Vindication is good in pvp vs Rogue and Warriors because it decrease their major dps Stats .

[Lexi]

Thanks smilko, I have a decent spec i'm going to try out using a lot of your posts/information. I appreciate your knowledge and help you give.

[Nugeneration]

1) AoE spells don't cause pushback or if they do here that is a bug. RoF/Hellfire/Blizzard/Flamestrike etc. never caused push back on retail vanilla. If it is a placeable AoE no pushback will be caused.

Cleave effects such as "Cleave" and Arcane Explosion will though.

2) Vindication is meh at best in pvp and detrimental in PvE.

3) Boosting holy light by 12% is very good in progression raiding. Contrary to popular belief around Cthun/Naxx you will cast holy light quite often on a lot of fights and not just spam FoL. To be fair that is a long time away and Holy Light coefficient seems bugged. Going to assume this will be fixed before that progression is released though.

I agree with Smilk healing light is meh at best for FoL spamming though. I just thought I would update and expand upon Smilks post regarding AoE I'm not sure if he was clear enough for any new players who may visit these forums looking for vanilla specific information. He wasn't wrong, but sometimes his English can be slightly confusing for some individuals. My apologies Smilk not trying to insult you in any regard just clarify what you mean.

[Baalls]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sVxurxoZVRtcc0x

This is the imo, the best (grouped) pvp spec. For pve healing the only talent you "need" is 5/5 illumination. Having the ability to equip a 2H with 5 reckoning stacks to assist in nuking down a healer /w stun then swapping back to shield to get 5 more stacks is incredible. People often complain paladins dont do enough damage in pvp to justify not healing. With this spec you will be capable of healing effectively and doing huge burst damage.

PS all warriors are jealous jerks and its best to avoid their opinions.

[Lexi]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sVxurxoZVRtcc0x

This is the imo, the best (grouped) pvp spec. For pve healing the only talent you "need" is 5/5 illumination. Having the ability to equip a 2H with 5 reckoning stacks to assist in nuking down a healer /w stun then swapping back to shield to get 5 more stacks is incredible. People often complain paladins dont do enough damage in pvp to justify not healing. With this spec you will be capable of healing effectively and doing huge burst damage.

PS all warriors are jealous jerks and its best to avoid their opinions.

And you and several others have said 5/5 Illu is good enough to heal dungeons/raids. The spec you posted has a lot more than that... so I could essentially play a "pretty good" healer in PvE and heal+reckbomb in Battlegrounds? That sounds really fun!

I've seen this build (and variations) and I understand how strong it is in PvP. But this is essentially a Holy Paladin with Reckoning...so would I enchant/gear for Holy (other than 2H of course) or Str/Agi? This is where I get a little confused.

[Baalls]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sVxurxoZVRtcc0x

This is the imo, the best (grouped) pvp spec. For pve healing the only talent you "need" is 5/5 illumination. Having the ability to equip a 2H with 5 reckoning stacks to assist in nuking down a healer /w stun then swapping back to shield to get 5 more stacks is incredible. People often complain paladins dont do enough damage in pvp to justify not healing. With this spec you will be capable of healing effectively and doing huge burst damage.

PS all warriors are jealous jerks and its best to avoid their opinions.

And you and several others have said 5/5 Illu is good enough to heal dungeons/raids. The spec you posted has a lot more than that... so I could essentially play a "pretty good" healer in PvE and heal+reckbomb in Battlegrounds? That sounds really fun!

I've seen this build (and variations) and I understand how strong it is in PvP. But this is essentially a Holy Paladin with Reckoning...so would I enchant/gear for Holy (other than 2H of course) or Str/Agi? This is where I get a little confused.

I would stick to Stam/Mp5/Healing for PvP/PvE interoperability. Spell crit where you can(jewelry). 90% of the time in raids you will only use FoL and clense. I healed into AQ40 using a 20/0/31 building and always topped healing efficiency charts.

Remember you are trying to heal until you get crit 5 times, unload reckbomb, then right back to healing. Repeat.