Lower ranks of nova/poly/bliz still worth it?

[toeshred]

I remember back in vanilla there might have been a nerf to downranking spells, and I am wondering if that is the case on this server. Will using rank 1 poly, frost nova, and blizzard still help me save mana? Are there any downsides to using rank 1 spells (other than doing very slightly less damage) as of 1.12.1?

[Sheepstick]

Downranking saves mana, but you have less effect. You might need to downrank as a healer in long fights so ensure you have a steady stream of healing. But for DPS that doesn't run out of mana in the fight? Why not just use your highest rank highest damage spells. +Healing and +spell damage affect the output of your spell by the spell's coefficient. Spell coefficent = cast time / 3.5 seconds. Instants it starts getting weird but worry about those later. Longer spells, the better they can use your +spell stat.

Ill give you a quick example:
Say you have 100 spell power. Frost bolt is 3 seconds (dont count talents) cast time. 3.0/3.5 = .86 = spell coefficent of Frost bolt. 100 spell power x .86 = +86 dmg per cast.
Rank 6 frost bolt - 100 mana, 130 dmg. + 86 dmg = 216 dmg / 60 mana = 2.16 Dmg per mana. 72 DPS
Rank 9 frost bolt - 260 mana, 440 dmg + 86 dmg = 2.02 DPM, 175 DPS

So you can see it slightly saves some mana, but your DPS is much lower. As a mage you shouldn't be running out of mana in PVE, especially with this content. So if you're not going to run out of mana, why not got for max DPS.... the point of your being there in the raid in the first place?

For healers, downranking is much better since they get alot more +healing than we get +spell.

You should use rank 1 spells sometimes in PVP. When fighting against rogues and druids that go stealth, depending on the situation I use rank 1 blizzard to pop em out of invis and give them a nice slow. Rank 1 polymorph spam help against druids in 1v1s because it costs you 60 mana while their travel form costs 250. Rank 1 cone of cold is also a nice quick chill effect for little mana.

[toeshred]

Yeah I would never downrank my damage spells in pve. I am mostly talking about pvp where rank 1 has the same utility as max rank (eg: poly, blizzard, frost nova).

[friendlyracist]

r1 blizz and nova are all good in pvp. However, based on how this server scripted their polymorphs, r1 poly will have a much higher chance of breaking early than a higher rank (not blizzlike). Which means we gotta waste that extra 100 mana on each poly .

[Xaeminos]

Downranking saves mana, but you have less effect. You might need to downrank as a healer in long fights so ensure you have a steady stream of healing. But for DPS that doesn't run out of mana in the fight? Why not just use your highest rank highest damage spells. +Healing and +spell damage affect the output of your spell by the spell's coefficient. Spell coefficent = cast time / 3.5 seconds. Instants it starts getting weird but worry about those later. Longer spells, the better they can use your +spell stat.

Ill give you a quick example:
Say you have 100 spell power. Frost bolt is 3 seconds (dont count talents) cast time. 3.0/3.5 = .86 = spell coefficent of Frost bolt. 100 spell power x .86 = +86 dmg per cast.
Rank 6 frost bolt - 100 mana, 130 dmg. + 86 dmg = 216 dmg / 60 mana = 2.16 Dmg per mana. 72 DPS
Rank 9 frost bolt - 260 mana, 440 dmg + 86 dmg = 2.02 DPM, 175 DPS

So you can see it slightly saves some mana, but your DPS is much lower. As a mage you shouldn't be running out of mana in PVE, especially with this content. So if you're not going to run out of mana, why not got for max DPS.... the point of your being there in the raid in the first place?

For healers, downranking is much better since they get alot more +healing than we get +spell.

You should use rank 1 spells sometimes in PVP. When fighting against rogues and druids that go stealth, depending on the situation I use rank 1 blizzard to pop em out of invis and give them a nice slow. Rank 1 polymorph spam help against druids in 1v1s because it costs you 60 mana while their travel form costs 250. Rank 1 cone of cold is also a nice quick chill effect for little mana.

Sorry, gotta jump in here. Not sure about this server, but in Vanilla mana usage end game was a huge issue for all casters. It's why downranking existed to begin with. But it was primarily a healing tactic where you maximized healing efficiency where you don't over heal and waste mana. You also were able to get off quicker heals.


From a PvP perspective, Rank 1 frost bolt should be your bread and butter. A Frost mage is a hard counter (kite all day) to all melee classes just like spriests, locks, druids, and beast hunters are to us. This excludes Pom/Pyro double trinket one shots which is fun, but garbage if you're serious about Vanilla pvp'ing. As for PvP running out of mana, the team you're playing must not be very good if they let you sit there and spam frostbolt/fireball.

[toeshred]

r1 blizz and nova are all good in pvp. However, based on how this server scripted their polymorphs, r1 poly will have a much higher chance of breaking early than a higher rank (not blizzlike). Which means we gotta waste that extra 100 mana on each poly .

I wonder if Frost Nova is also scripted wierd. Because I am using r1, and I've had a SW:P DoT tick break it more often than I remember that happening in original Vanilla WoW. Not multiple DoT ticks, but the very first tick since the Nova debuff was on my enemy. Or maybe this is just bad luck on my part.

[ShaqPack]

Rank 1 frost nova is great in pvp and pve. Especially in pve though, where the biggest problem isn't surviving, but dealing with running out of mana quickly. Using rank 1 won't make a huge difference, but it will cut down on your down time a bit. Not sure about anyone else but this never breaks early by accident, the only time it does is if I'm hitting the enemy REALLY hard, and that's at max level with lots of spell power.

Rank 1 poly.... I suppose in pvp it's not bad, but in pve, it just makes sense to use max rank. You'll either do that or just end up re-sheeping the target and spending extra mana anyway.

Rank 1 blizzard, haven't found too many uses for it but it's nice for something like catching rogues off guard or if you need a wacky slow that's casted immediately (rank 1 frost bolt is better for that though in most situations, especially if you have the talents for it).

[Taslion]

The changes to rank 1 spells being more resistable was made in much later patches and, yes luckily, rank 1 spells aren't like that here right now. They may change that at some later point of the server's life but hopefully its around for quite awhile

[pootpoot]

I was a fire mage in Peenix, and yes i downranked poly to rank 2, nova 1, blizzard 1, and frost bolt 1. yeah.. no mana no life.

[Ana]

Sorry, gotta jump in here. Not sure about this server, but in Vanilla mana usage end game was a huge issue for all casters.

Not mages. 45% regen plus mana gems plus evocation plus if the fight is really taking 15 minutes, use a demonic rune or something... oh, did I mention mp5 food and countless other pre-fight consumables? If you oom as mage, you're doing something seriously wrong.