[PvP] The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.8!)

Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by Lazermon » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:02 am

Added links since most items actually got normal stats now.

edit: changed back to the good items and dropped one point out of elemental precision.
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by Dreez » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:04 pm

for those without tailoring, these are the items you should be going for:

Helm: Mish'undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer (Nefarian, BWL)
Neck: Choker of the Fire Lord (Ragnaros, MC)
Shoulders:Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal (Razorgore, BWL)
Back: Cloak of Consumption (Hakkar, ZG)
Chest: Legionnaire's Silk Tunic (PvP, r8)
Wrist: Bracers of Arcane Accuracy (Broodlord, BWL)
Weapon: Staff of the Shadow Flame (Nefarian, BWL)
Wand: Cold Snap (Azuregos), let's be realistic: any AH wand with frost damage or this one: Touch of Chaos
Gloves:Bloodtinged Gloves (Jin'do, ZG)
Waist:Mana Igniting Cord (Magmadar, Garr, Baron Geddon, Golemagg, MC)
Legs: Legionnaire's Silk Legguards (PvP, r8)
Feet: Ringo's Blizzard Boots (BWL trash, Death Talon Wyrmguard)
Ring: Zanzil's Band(High Priest Venoxis, ZG)
Ring: Zanzil's Seal(Bloodlord Mandokir, ZG)
Trinket 1: Mind Quickening Gem (Vael, BWL)
Trinket 2: Neltharion's Tear (Nefarian, BWL)
Last edited by Dreez on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by arOo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:46 pm

Dreez wrote:for those without tailoring, these are the items you should be going for:
[...]

^puts you over hitcap:
(fixed BiS List)
Helm: Mish'undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer (Nefarian, BWL)
Neck: Choker of the Fire Lord (Ragnaros, MC)
Shoulders:Champion's Silk Mantle (PvP R10)
Back: Cloak of Consumption (Hakkar, ZG)
Chest: Robe of Volatile Power (Shared Bossloot, MC)
Wrist: Bracers of Arcane Accuracy (Broodlord, BWL)
Weapon: Staff of the Shadow Flame (Nefarian, BWL)
Wand: Cold Snap (Azuregos), let's be realistic: any AH wand with frost damage or this one: Touch of Chaos
Gloves:Netherwind Gloves (BWL Dragons)
Waist:Mana Igniting Cord (Magmadar, Garr, Baron Geddon, Golemagg, MC)
Legs: Legionnaire's Silk Legguards (PvP, r8)
Feet: Ringo's Blizzard Boots (BWL trash, Death Talon Wyrmguard)
Ring: Band of Forced Concentration(BWL Dragons)
Ring: Ring of Spellpower(Shared Bossloot,MC)
Trinket 1: Mind Quickening Gem (Vael, BWL)
Trinket 2: Neltharion's Tear (Nefarian, BWL)
Trinket 3: Talisman of Ephermal Power (Shared Bossloot, MC)
Trinket 4: Zandalarian Hero Charm (Hakkar's Heart, ZG)

However, most notably about Bloodvine is that you don't necasserly need to be a tailor to make use of the items.
The general rule of thumb is if you have <5% Hit from Gear, which will effectively put you on 11% Hit, you will be at least wearing one Bloodvine item(Legs/Boots).
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by Brainzy » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:04 pm

OP forgot to update with ZG spell power enchant on shoulders.

Also question how much do you value spell hit in terms of spell power at BIS gear with and without flask?

My gear is around 500 spell power and I value both hit and crit at around 9,5 spell power which means going to Bloodvine set from Archmage+Flarecore+Ringos means a huge investment for a 0,3 spell power loss, 320 HP loss, 16 FR loss, mana on use loss. This is all unbuffed with not full BIS gear.
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by Dreez » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:01 pm

arOo wrote:^puts you over hitcap:

hmm wasn't the hit cap at 17 %
--> -6% from elemental precision --> 11%

which is exactly what the gear I proposed gives (counting in 2 enchants ofc)

and true, pvp shoulders + MC robes are slightly better
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by Pizzashoes » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:35 pm

There's always a 1% miss rate, so the cap is 16% from talents and gear.
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by arOo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:40 pm

Dreez wrote:
arOo wrote:^puts you over hitcap:

hmm wasn't the hit cap at 17 %
--> -6% from elemental precision --> 11%

which is exactly what the gear I proposed gives (counting in 2 enchants ofc)

and true, pvp shoulders + MC robes are slightly better

In theory yes, 17% puts you on 100% with Raidbosses- but that isn't possible since the hitcap maxes out at 99%.

However being hitcapped is not ultimately what you are going for. Crit and hit equals out in a Frost Specc as you can see in these equations(Frosbolt Base Dmg = 1k to keep it simple):
0.99*1000= 990 (16% hit; 0 Crit)
0.96*1000+(1000*0.03)= 990 (13% hit; 3 Crit)
--> So 13% Hit 3% Crit equals 16%. In regards that you get tons of hit in later content; I would advise to go for more Crit, since this stat is growing exponentially (actually linear; excuse the hybris)with later content (Fire).
--> I'm aware that this is working for any stat combination: So in theory 0% hit 16% crit gives you the same result. It is however good to close out on hit to stay relevant (and 13%~ is a good number) for this patch; nothing is more frustrating than a streak of missed spells.

These numbers obviously dont stand up to single Boss encounters, because of a lack of sample casts - but they even out in the long run.
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by Lazermon » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:35 am

Brainzy wrote:OP forgot to update with ZG spell power enchant on shoulders.

Also question how much do you value spell hit in terms of spell power at BIS gear with and without flask?

My gear is around 500 spell power and I value both hit and crit at around 9,5 spell power which means going to Bloodvine set from Archmage+Flarecore+Ringos means a huge investment for a 0,3 spell power loss, 320 HP loss, 16 FR loss, mana on use loss. This is all unbuffed with not full BIS gear.


I have resolved to not discuss math on these forums, but I promise you that hit and crit is worth way more than 9,5 sp with your gear.
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by sumail » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:57 am

Can try these equations if you want to figure out a spell power equivalent to 1% crit/hit.

1/0.814*((446.5+0.814*x)*(1+crit)/(1+crit+0.01) - 446.5) - x = Spell Power equivalent to 1% crit

Can do the same thing for hit using:

1/0.814*((446.5+0.814*x)*(0.83+hit)/(0.83+hit+0.01)-446.5) - x = Spell Power equivalent to 1% hit

x = your current spell power
crit = your current crit (crit %/100)
hit = your current hit (hit%/100)

Plug these in and you can get a spell power equivalent if you increase you hit/crit by 1%.
Last edited by sumail on Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.7 and ZG!

by sumail » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:29 pm

arOo wrote:
Dreez wrote:
arOo wrote:^puts you over hitcap:

hmm wasn't the hit cap at 17 %
--> -6% from elemental precision --> 11%

which is exactly what the gear I proposed gives (counting in 2 enchants ofc)

and true, pvp shoulders + MC robes are slightly better

In theory yes, 17% puts you on 100% with Raidbosses- but that isn't possible since the hitcap maxes out at 99%.

However being hitcapped is not ultimately what you are going for. Crit and hit equals out in a Frost Specc as you can see in these equations(Frosbolt Base Dmg = 1k to keep it simple):
0.99*1000= 990 (16% hit; 0 Crit)
0.96*1000+(1000*0.03)= 990 (13% hit; 3 Crit)
--> So 13% Hit 3% Crit equals 16%. In regards that you get tons of hit in later content; I would advise to go for more Crit, since this stat is growing exponentially (actually linear; excuse the hybris)with later content (Fire).
--> I'm aware that this is working for any stat combination: So in theory 0% hit 16% crit gives you the same result. It is however good to close out on hit to stay relevant (and 13%~ is a good number) for this patch; nothing is more frustrating than a streak of missed spells.

These numbers obviously dont stand up to single Boss encounters, because of a lack of sample casts - but they even out in the long run.


I think your equations might be wrong. If you have 3% chance to crit that doesn't mean you will crit 3 times with 96 chances means you crit 3 times with 100 chances (on average). Should be 0.96*1000*(1+0.03). Otherwise you are critting 3/96 = 3.125%. 0.96*.03 = 2.88 crits, so you'd crit 2.88 times out of 96 hits (2.88/96 = 3%).
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