[PvP] The BiS for the current content (updated for 1.8!)

[Dervin20]

Hit has a sliding scale of value based on certain hit breakpoints.

As a frost mage your first non talent point of his is worth the most because it puts you from .89 to .9 hit chance.

The next 5 that bring you to .95 are worth less than that.

And the final 4 are worth the least and you generally shouldn't sarcrafice a lot of spellpower to obtain it.

[Lazermon]

Sumail did the math more precise than I ever bothered doing, this in addition with me erroneusly including multipliers in my calculations made me overvalue crit and hit slightly (by ~1-3 sp), check sumails post at page 16 a bit down for the math.

I currently value hit to be worth 14 SP in the bis setup. If any gear looks off with this value in mind, do tell me.

If you want to be sure about something for a gear setup that is far below the BiS, you are better off doing your own math, and I recommend doing it manually over trusting some addon to get it right for you.

[skiddo23]

Hi,

I really like modUI. I have one problem tho, can't find the solution. I dont see my or other players /rolls. Is there a simple setting I am missing? I disabled all other chataddons, it's still not working. Nevertheless, keep up the good work!

skiddo

[sumail]

Yeah the hit vs spell power and crit vs spell power can be calculated. I don't really use theorycraft other than to get an idea for my crit chance. I just don't like blindly trusting what values it gives me since I have no idea how it came up with those values.

Below is pretty much all the math used to calculate it. Might be overwhelming for some just look at my post on page 16 if it gets too confusing.

First you use this equation:

Average Damage = (0.83 + hit)(A + B*Sp)(1-crit) + (0.83 + hit)(A + B*Sp)(crit)*2

So this equation shows your average damage output and the first term is damage from hits and second term is damage from crits. You can rewrite the equation to look like:

Average Damage = (0.83 + hit)(A + B*Sp)(1+crit)

Note A and B are constants. A is the average base damage of the spell with 0 spell power and no damage multipliers and B is the spell's spell power coefficient.

Now if you want to compare 1% hit to x amount of spell power you just equate the equation to each other like this:

(0.83 + hit)(A+B*(Sp+x))(1+crit) = (0.83+hit + 0.01)(A + B*Sp)(1 +crit)

And then just solve for x. Notice the left hand side has the spell power increased by x and the right hand side has the hit increased by 0.01 (1%). The crit is the same for both cases so it cancels out.

(0.83 + hit)(A+B*(Sp+x)) = (0.83 + hit + 0.01)(A + B*Sp)

Divide both sides by (0.83 + hit)

A+B*(Sp + x) = (0.83 + hit + 0.01)/(0.83 + hit) * (A+B*Sp)

Subtract A from both sides

B*(Sp + x) = (0.83 + hit + 0.01)/(0.83 + hit) * (A+B*Sp) - A

Divide both sides by B

Sp + x = ((0.83 + hit + 0.01)/(0.83 + hit) * (A+B*Sp) - A)/B

Finally subtract Sp by both sides

x = ((0.83 + hit + 0.01)/(0.83 + hit) * (A+B*Sp) - A)/B - Sp

Above is the final equation to compute the amount of spell power equivalent to increasing your hit% by 1 and you specific gear level. Similarly you can get this equation for crit to spell power:

x = ((1 + crit + 0.01)/(1 + crit) * (A+B*Sp) - A)/B - Sp

Once you have these equations it's pretty easy to plug them into a spreadsheet and let the spreadsheet do the computations for you. I attacked a bunch of mobs with no spell and with 400 spell power and found A ~ 469 and B ~ 0.84.

The equations can be used for other spells too. But the crit equation can only be used for spells that have a 2x multiplier with crit. For other spells you just have to determine A and B.

[Dervin20]

fireball you'd just change it to x2.1

but that wouldn't take into account rolling ignites.

[sumail]

Yeah fireball is really strange because of rolling ignites. I've been trying to come up with a way to make an estimated multiplier for targets that have a 5 stack ignite. I think what I've come up with is somewhat accurate and I can share the math for how I determine the crit multiplier if the target has 5 ignite stacks. It's just a lot more complicated and depends on how many mages you have in the raid and what their crit% is.

[Lazermon]

luckily we have 6 months on us before we need to worry about it!

[etternDS]

Okay I relooked at everything and I found one reason the spell damage coefficient was off. I forgot that I have 3/3 in piecing ice which is basically a 1.06 damage multiplier.

For determining the base damage I went ahead and attacked mobs while having 0 sp.

Average damage ranges were:
479-516 (avg 497.5)

Since I have 3/3 piecing ice the base damage at 0 spell power will be 497.5/1.06 = 469.3.

The frostbolt spellpower coefficient does actually make a difference when comparing spellpower to hit/crit. If you change the coefficient it changes how important spellpower becomes. I can show why this is true if you are skeptical.

I did some testing at different spellpowers and back calculated a spellpower coefficient of 0.84. Now the difference between using 0.84 and 0814 only changes the ratio by ~0.10 spellpower so It doesn't matter much anyway. I can show how I come up with 0.84 as the coefficient if anyone wants to know, I just don't want to make things confusing.

Im 95% certain that you have Arcane Instability talent aswell. If you do, you get the same result as me when testing with 0 spellpower, meaning approx +11sp from an unknown resource. (Should be avg. ~487)

[sumail]

Wow nice catch! I never realized Arcane Instability gives you 3% more spell power too just thought it was 3% crit.

Okay so with Arcane Instability I was getting 469 average damage. So 469/1.03 = ~455. Then at 400 spellpower I was getting 804 average damage. So 804/1.03 = 782.

So now the spellpower coefficient becomes:

782 = 455 + B*400

B = (782 -455) / 400 = 0.815

Pretty much the same as 0.814 the difference is probably due to some rounding. 400*0.814 = 325.6 added damage. So maybe the game just rounds that up to 326. 400*0.815 = 326.

[etternDS]

Okay so with Arcane Instability I was getting 469 average damage. So 469/1.03 = ~455.

The average base damage (0 SP) is wrong tho according to the Frostbolt tooltip in game (I get the same result as you do). It should be 446,5 ( [429+464]/2 ) with no talents. Would be nice if we could get a clarification from GM where that extra damage is coming from. I suspect Frostbolt rank 10 have a different spellrange on server side, than what it says in tooltip.