Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Started a mage recently and about 50% of the time frostbolt is resisted on mobs a level under or same as me.

I'm only level 6 at the moment but does this get fixed at a later level? I mean I know mages are squish but being able to actually kill a mob without a resist would be nice.

rolien wrote:Started a mage recently and about 50% of the time frostbolt is resisted on mobs a level under or same as me.

I'm only level 6 at the moment but does this get fixed at a later level? I mean I know mages are squish but being able to actually kill a mob without a resist would be nice.

Some mobs are highly resistant to some types of magic. E.g. The Kobolds in Elwynn Forest resist fire damage. You'll be fine. Just user other types on them.

Mitzoo wrote:Some mobs are highly resistant to some types of magic.

This is the problem. Yes, they should be resistant (to be blizzlike)... but not "highly" resistant. Fire spells in original WoW would still hit Elwynn Kobolds more often than they would resist. Same goes for frost spells on Worgen and Dalaran mages in Silverpine.

toeshred wrote:Fire spells in original WoW would still hit Elwynn Kobolds more often than they would resist.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. A resist =/= a miss, and a resist is not the opposite of a hit (the opposite is a miss). Now you can have a spell fully resisted, but even with max resistance, a spell hits more often than its "resisted."

However, I do suspect that the resistances of some mobs on this server is too high. Those deviate shamblers in wc come to mind...

diogenes wrote:

toeshred wrote:Fire spells in original WoW would still hit Elwynn Kobolds more often than they would resist.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. A resist =/= a miss, and a resist is not the opposite of a hit (the opposite is a miss). Now you can have a spell fully resisted, but even with max resistance, a spell hits more often than its "resisted."

So are we just going to be discussing semantics now? Whatever the definition of resist, hit, miss, partial resist may be... spells are not doing their full damage as often as they should be. Frostbolt is especially hindered by this because there are no partial resists with frostbolt; It is either a hit or a full resist, nothing in between.

If you want to see what I mean, go make a mage and get him to lvl 18 or so... try to kill lvl 13-14 Dalaran people in Ambermill (Silverpine Forest) with just frostbolt. You'll notice a fight goes something like this (despite them being 4+ levels lower): resist, resist, hit, resist, resist, resist, forst nova resist, hit, resist, resist, resist, hit, resist, resist, hit, enemy finally dead. Yes, this is on enemies that are significantly lower level AND were not very frost resistant in original WoW to begin with. Either their resists are way too high to frost (as well as other enemies such as the Moonrage Whitescalp worgen just outside of Sepulcher) or resists are somehow double-dipping on this server. Either of which forces mages to do something *they didn't have to do in original WoW*, which is to switch completely to another element to kill certain enemy types.

I have leveled somewhere around 8-10 mages through Silverpine in original WoW 1.x and have NEVER had to completely switch up my spell element in Silverpine (or Elwynn) before. Never.

dont listen to this theorycraft noobs

just do elemental precision 3\3

no need to thank me

onetimeslasher wrote:just do elemental precision 3\3

Shouldn't have to change your build in order to compensate for something that should be fixed on the server end.

toeshred wrote:So are we just going to be discussing semantics now? Whatever the definition of resist, hit, miss, partial resist may be... spells are not doing their full damage as often as they should be. Frostbolt is especially hindered by this because there are no partial resists with frostbolt; It is either a hit or a full resist, nothing in between.

Ok, I'm sorry that I opened that post up acerbically. However, this is not a semantic disticntion, its a really really important one. When a spell is "missed" (admittedly it does come up in the combat log as a "resist") that is due to the first roll. When a spell is resisted, you get either 25%, 50%, 75% or even possibly 100% of the spell to be resisted. I'm absolutely positive you're aware of this, which is what makes your statement about frostbolt categorically wrong. Sure, if you cast one, and only one frostbolt, there's a much higher likelihood that it will deal no damage compared to a shadowbolt or something. However, over the course of a full fight, or a full mob grinding session, the partial resists from shadowbolt are going to be at the same, or very close to, the same as the binary resists from frost bolt.

This is because if the target has equivalent to 50% damage reduction to spell resistance (whatever that actual spell resist is for whatever level you're talking about), then its going to reduce the damage by 50% for both shadowbolt AND frostbolt. The fact that frostbolt is binary has nothing to do with the probability of it doing damage over many casts compared to shadowbolt's probability of doing damage over many casts.

If you want to see what I mean, go make a mage and get him to lvl 18 or so... try to kill lvl 13-14 Dalaran people in Ambermill (Silverpine Forest) with just frostbolt. You'll notice a fight goes something like this (despite them being 4+ levels lower): resist, resist, hit, resist, resist, resist, forst nova resist, hit, resist, resist, resist, hit, resist, resist, hit, enemy finally dead.

And if they were shadow resistant, it would take, on average, the same amount of casts with shadow bolt. What's your point? The only difference is you'd see many small numbers instead of the binary resist/hit of frostbolt. This is very basic statistics/probability.

Either their resists are way too high to frost (as well as other enemies such as the Moonrage Whitescalp worgen just outside of Sepulcher) or resists are somehow double-dipping on this server.

I agree, there is something funny going on with resist values. Like I said, the shamblers in WC have more spell resist (of all schools) than they should as the only viable way to kill them is via physical dps. However, I don't have enough knowledge about how the server is functioning to answer this question definitively.

Either of which forces mages to do something *they didn't have to do in original WoW*, which is to switch completely to another element to kill certain enemy types.

That is just fundamentally wrong. First, obviously all serious mages were frost in MC and BWL, and respecced fire for AQ and Naxx. Second I played a mage in both vanilla and BC, and distinctly remember having to switch between fire and frost depending on the situation in pve while leveling. Granted, I fully accept that you probably do have to do it on this server more than you did on retail, But to categorically say it "didn't have to be done in original wow" is just wrong.

I have leveled somewhere around 8-10 mages through Silverpine in original WoW 1.x and have NEVER had to completely switch up my spell element in Silverpine (or Elwynn) before. Never.

Never leveled in elwynn (as a mage), but did level in silverpine. While I do remember switching spell schools in vanilla and bc, I do not recall having to do it so early. My only point here (and I really do apologize for my first acerbic post), if we're going to give accurate and helpful feedback about this server, it is critical that we get our terms and facts right. Using the incorrect terminology will convolute the issue and decrease the chance of the problems being corrected.

diogenes wrote:

I agree that frostbolt and fireball/shadowbolt all do equivalent damage despite frost showing the "resist" onscreen more often (due to the nature that frostbolt can only be 0 damage or full damage). And I agree that frost isn't the only messed up element. The same problem is with Kolkar centaur in the Barrens with fire spells. Or as you mentioned shadow on WC shamblers and such. Also I should have mentioned I was talking about pre-raiding/leveling, because as we know you had to be frost for MC/BWL, and for Naxx, frost was obviously not too great.

But yes, I agree with everything you said. Something is wrong with how resists are calculated on the server, because enemies that are only supposed to be mildly resistant (maybe 10-20% tops), are giving around 90% resists.

EDIT: Just did WC as a mage, and notice the Shamblers also resist fire AND frost about 90% as well.