Looking for Daemon opinion and statement on a game mechanic

[Armilus]

Sounds to me like you are bypassing the instance reset limit. Pretty sure that falls under bug abuse.

I assume you did not read what I wrote just above your post. I recommend that you read it and then edit your post, since it clearly is mistaken.

You mean the post where you describe in painfully precise detail exactly how to reset the instance and bypass the reset limit? Ya I already read it.

Let's go through it step by step.

1)

He logs out with an un-touched instance and logs in again on a spot where a tome can spawn. If the instance is untouched, the tome location, mob spawns etc. all reset.

Ok, I got it. What you're saying is, the mobs are all reset, the dusty tomb spawn is reset, etc. So the entire instances is RESET.

2)

But as soon as he has looted a tome, the instance is thus saved and a reset is required by console command. This means that he cannot ever loot more than 5 books per run.

Ok I understand. The exploit won't let you farm infinite books, only a guaranteed 5 per hour. So it is at least limited.

3)

Is this exploiting? Clearly not. Creative use of game mechanics? Absolutely. Is a permanent ban justified in this case? Absolutely not.

How is this "Clearly not" exploiting? You explained EXACTLY how to perform the exploit but you said absolutely nothing about why it is not an exploit. You very explicitly said how he resets the instances without incrementing the instance reset counter.

4)

I can understand if GM:s and staff wants to put an end to this, even though everything seems to indicate that it was in fact possible and 'legal' in retail.

What proof do you have that it was not an exploit in retail?

5)

However, even if you decide to prohibit this, the ban on Calistro certainly must be revoked since he couldn't reasonably be expecting that what he was doing was punishable by a permanent ban!

So... let me get this straight. This guy typed /script ResetInstances(); 5 times and wasn't able to log into the instances anymore so he waited an hour and tried to reset the instances in a different way and realized he could reset the instances more than 5 times per hour by using this method.

At no point did it occur to him that this might not be ok? In case you think you're friend is not being treated the same as everyone else see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5807&p=49627&hilit=bypass#p49627

Fixed one possible exploit that allowed players to bypass the hourly instance limitation. More than 10 accounts have been permanently banned for using it.
Fixed one exploit in BRD where some chests could be abused. More than 10 accounts have also been permanently banned for using it.

If you used this same 'trick' to reset an instance until a rare spawn was up, it was also be exploiting and should result in a permanent ban. You get 5 instance resets per hour. 5. Five. FIVE.

[bockhorn]

but he is still unable to loot more than 5 tomes/h which is what is relevant in this case. Actually, one doesnt even need to log out to do this. There are shitloads of players just running in and out of DM-west to see if the book spawns by the entrance there, should they be banned to? There is no bug abuse involved in this, its simply a creative use of game mechanics. If it isnt explicitely forbidden, it shouldnt award a PERMANENT ban.

[Zoey_Urbina]

Doesn't matter if the user is unable to loot more than 5. The user is still intentionally using a mechanic to respawn an object until it has a favorable location which the user can reach and can do so indefinitely until the object has been used. Once the object has been used, the instance would lock itself, forcing the user to /script ResetInstances(). Once reset, he can indefinitely abuse the mechanic again to respawn the object so that it can be reached and repeat the process for a maximum of 5 times per hour.

If this core mechanic for the instancing system was working correctly both here on Nostalrius and the retail vanilla, then the instance wouldn't automatically reset itself if the user exited while not having made any progress or touched any objects.

The object would stay in the spawn location it received as the user entered the instance for the first time. It will remain in the same location even if the user exits the instance and enters again. If the user is unhappy with the location of the object, he can do /script ResetInstances() to respawn it, but only 5 times an hour.

P.S: This core mechanic has been fixed in retail and can no longer be abused.

[calistro]

If you so strongly recomend this than this shuld apply for all players not only for me and thats more than 50% of nostalrius population , include here the rare spawn , since this cannot be tracked because is not a bug , only bugs abuse result to perma ban abuse game mechanics is somehting else which your brain seems not to understand and make the diference , and since im the only one got baned out of hundreds of players this is discrimination , and given power to randoom players who to get or not to get banned because they can report you or not this is at THEIR OWN WISH to choose , so if someone doesnt like your mug he can report you and you get banned just like that , and you got nothing left to do because someone is hater or stupid.

It is the Staff members job to warn and announce players what is alowed or not allowerd for example using system msg for things like this instead showing off how many accs they have banned and other useless things , not just jump in suddenly and say '"well ok we changing the rules 1 second ago and you get banned because i want you to get banned, since you broke a rule which we did not had written in server's rules and had no ideea it's happening , yea you clearly diserver perma ban ''.
So explain me how this works and how fair it is because your so good a explaining stuff Mr. Smarty

And Daemon whispered me like this : ,, You are not allowed to loot more than 5 chest per hour '' here is exactly why i say this was confusion he maybe thought i reset instance with script more than 5 times/hour. And you Do Not loot More than 5/tomes chests per hour , is diference between seeing 5 and loooting 5 .And im verry sure that hunter who report me took care to misslead the GM's opinion thats why this should be verrified by staff member.

This is like saying you are obligated to run from point A to point B and not alowed to relog and loot from point A. Because you dont reset the content of the tome you just change location ofc is up to you if you want to loot at Point A which is next to entrance or you want to waste 5 more mins walking to Point B, this makes logic ?
magine a group wiping at first mob lets say the healer and 2 more was afk when tank pull they corpse run and tome change location , even if tome was right in front of them behind that mob (which is convenient) welll lets ban them because they abused game mechanics.

[Sigals]

This is clearly abuse of a bug, it doesn't matter if you can only loot 5 per hour, the point is you are garaunteed to loot 5 per hour, whereas if you didnt exploit this bug then you are not garaunteed to loot any per hour....

Banning accounts is at the admins discretion.

Calling it "clever use of game mechanics" is just you trying to avoid the fact that you abused an obvious bug, got caught and then banned.

[calistro]

This is clearly abuse of a bug, it doesn't matter if you can only loot 5 per hour, the point is you are garaunteed to loot 5 per hour, whereas if you didnt exploit this bug then you are not garaunteed to loot any per hour....

Banning accounts is at the admins discretion.

Calling it "clever use of game mechanics" is just you trying to avoid the fact that you abused an obvious bug, got caught and then banned.

Each ID you are guaranteed 100% 1 tome , means 5 tomes/hour 100% ofc that if your smart, for example you can loot all tome spots in DM north you knew that ? , rethink what you say before you actualy say it , and go check wikipedia what means a game bug , and what is not a game bug.

,,Banning accounts is at the admins discretion.'' this server is soposed to be blizzlike from what i heard and there are some sets of rules, and it may be at admin's disrection but not at the players discretion like in my case .
And you can loot 5 tomes/hour which is clearly you didnt know without exit enter or /relog , dont throw opinions without a damn good documentations and experience.

[Same]

I made a statement on this topic that represented what the staff's stance on this was. Your account is banned, you exploited. Daemon himself banned you in game and that is not a good enough response for you.

Same.