Looking for Daemon opinion and statement on a game mechanic

[calistro]

So after my other topic where we seem not to understand eachother , i make this simple, heres a guide and a step by step Dusty tome farm in dire maul , from Retail vanilla wow 10-12 years old trick. Particulary east DM because thats what i farmed.

Enter instance , check first spot up platform on left , if nothing there jump down at tree rooth (this is the one i loot all time) you got the latrendis spot left and the last boss one which you cannont reach. Well you got no tome on first 2 spots , relog inside instance without doing /script ResetInstance (Relog inside instance does NOT reset instance this is same thing as exit entrer instance) so i used relog inside instance because you cannot exit instance from DM east once you jump down.Now here comes the big deal which the guy who report me say is bug but hes clueless of what hes talking , The dusty tome is always changing location inside instance once u exit the instance and re-enter you can do the exit instance by reloging or simply run out and run back in , (This is how its always been , i used this tactic in official wow and was fine, also on other private server works same cuz this is how it has to be.)
OK so you make 2-3 relogs untill the tome apear on any of those 4 spawn points you want to loot , you loot it and then you do /script ResetInstance and relog again or run out from instance (which in my case was to die and i used relog to not pay useless repair bills , and was to lazy to get naked all time) , and you get outside DM west door after relog.
OK so you repeat this 3-4 more times because that will be the point when you get cooldown on entering instance anymore , you can wait Cooldown to pass and remake this every hour ..........So practicaly i farmed 5 dusty tomes per hour every time i had cooldown on instance ready . This is no way it can be a bug you may called exploit (exploit = abusing game weakness) and noone ever found this out or figure this out as beeing a bug untill me and i get perma ban for this beeing the first one and maybe the only one who knew this.

Keep in mind that there are ALOT ALOT of people farming dusty tomes like this right now , + many others who learned from me , and others who figured the tactic themshelfs , and they still out there playng and having fun farming tomes ........i dont think thats quite fair and the least to get perma ban for this.

Daemon can you check this out and give us opinion and statement please? Thank you .
P.S Looting more than 5 tomes per hour is imposible , once you open tome the location wont change itshelf anymore and you wont get another one in that ID , this is why blizzard designed them to change locations so players gets better chance of finding them.

[Zoey_Urbina]

As far I can understand, the instance does actually reset itself upon exit as long the user haven't locked the instance by opening chests or killed any mobs etc. So there's no reason for the server to notify the user that it has been reset once the user exits. I believe that this would be abuse of an game mechanic. Users are using this to re-spawn objects until it's they receive a favorable outcome, the mechanic was obviously never intended to be used this way. As to why Blizzard considered this accepted? Probably because it would take too much time to prevent it, it's an essential and huge mechanic in the game. My personal opinion is that the ban is justified. Although Staff should probably find a way to notify the users so they're aware.

[calistro]

i agree with you to call this exploit but there was no warning not to use this and i also didnt know this would be a reason for ban and is forbidden , there are people doing worse things than this consciously and they get 24 hours-fiew days ban , and i got perma ban for this without any warning i agree for getting banned but not perma since this was first time used and stated as forbidden, other players still use it and play normal.I sent them list with players who still use this as we speak and they still online doing it

[nostazzle]

believe that this would be abuse of an game mechanic.[...]the mechanic was obviously never intended to be used this way.

This is close to the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on these forums. MANY things end up being used/farmed/accessed in unintended ways. It's up to the developer to account for the player, who will undoubtedly find the easiest, fastest, and laziest way to get things done in every single scenario since the beginning of time. Instance locks stop instances from being over-farmed, anything that goes on within an instance reset shouldn't be an issue. (with an exception to third party applications) I know plenty of people who reset in hopes of getting a rare, this is no different.

As to why Blizzard considered this accepted? Probably because it would take too much time to prevent it, it's an essential and huge mechanic in the game. My personal opinion is that the ban is justified.

Your personal opinion is based off of a random and arbitrary assumption. There's no way to even begin verifying any part of the statement, so using it to justify a ban, even as a personal opinion does nothing but show potential for someone who would completely abuse any inherited/future power.

[Zoey_Urbina]

I base my opinion that the ban being justified with this - When a user is using an mechanic in a way that it was never intended to be used, which in this case would be to cause an object to continuously respawn until it has a favorable location for the user, then its a clear abuse of game mechanics. Turns out I wasn't the only one who thought of it this way. The mechanic in question is a core mechanic for any dungeon/raid, so making changes to it without breaking any of the sub mechanics that rely on it is nearly impossible. Which I intentionally stated before with "Probably" when it came to why Blizzard allowed it.

P.S: This is no longer possible in retail, I wonder why

[calistro]

As topic says looking for Daemon opinion , your opinion has verry low base i see your 22 years old i doubt you played 1.10 or whatever in retail and this game mechanic lasts untill further patch when there will be more than 1 tome spawn per ID and location stops from changing , and this ban if is justified for me it should be for other maybe 500 players who farm like this right now? and maybe for the guy who report me because he farmed also and maybe got mad i had more time than him to play and farm more than him? , and now he eliminated competition and he keeps going? how can you be so sure of what you talkin ? , so please wait for Daemon opinion Thank you.

Anyway this ban may be justified as warning ban for 24 hours or fiew days not perma because there is diference between abuse game mechanis and bug abuse since this aint bug , tell me where you see abuse game mechanics here :

D - Last warning.: A last warning is given before a permanent ban. This sanction is applied in case of multiple violations of the rules, or after multiple account interruptions, as well as any of the following:

Casinos;
Multiboxing;
Abuse of in-game bugs;
Any attempt to bribe a staff member;
Organized killing for farming rank and/or honor.

E - Permanent ban.: Most serious sanction. Permanent bans are rare but definitive. This sanction is applied in case of multiple violations of the rules, or after multiple account interruption, as well as any of the following:

Examples:

Hacking;
Using any botting program;
Abuse of major in-game bugs;
Possession of any item(s) obtained with illegal methods;
Any client modification (libraries, executables, MPQ, etc.);
Revealing the identity of a Nostalrius Begins staff member;
Advertising for other private servers or gold selling websites;
Selling/Buying accounts, gold, items or any ingame services with real money;
Publishing a software, methods or articles on cheating which can be applied on the server.


Check the bold. I am saving you time and hope that you will get your account back because that will never happen. This is also a warning to other players, this is considered an exploit and you will be banned for it.

Same.

i see more serious breakings of rule here which are not banned with perma ban , and i did not do any of these. And i got banned for reason i reset more than 5 times per hour instance which is absurd because you cant do that atleast from what i know.

[nostazzle]

P.S: This is no longer possible in retail, I wonder why

None of the dusty tome spots in DM East were changed prior to patch 3.2.2, there were always rogues/warlocks/hunters suicide running for these tombs back in the day. When dusty tome farming first became a thing, instance reset suicide runs for this exact tome with a warlock in the group to summon the person out was extremely popular. So if you're implying a change to instances in general were made, or a change to Dire Maul was made to stop specifically this from happening, you're wrong.

Again, no reason to explain your arbitrary justification on why you think someone should be banned based off of what Blizzard may have thought 8 years ago. That is a disgusting and narcissistic way of thinking.

[bockhorn]

Hello,

I am a guildie and friend of Calistro and I have to speak up to his defense. What Calistro has done has never ever enabled him to loot more than 5 tomes/hour. He logs out with an un-touched instance and logs in again on a spot where a tome can spawn. If the instance is untouched, the tome location, mob spawns etc. all reset. But as soon as he has looted a tome, the instance is thus saved and a reset is required by console command. This means that he cannot ever loot more than 5 books per run. Is this exploiting? Clearly not. Creative use of game mechanics? Absolutely. Is a permanent ban justified in this case? Absolutely not. I can understand if GM:s and staff wants to put an end to this, even though everything seems to indicate that it was in fact possible and 'legal' in retail. However, even if you decide to prohibit this, the ban on Calistro certainly must be revoked since he couldn't reasonably be expecting that what he was doing was punishable by a permanent ban!

Please, re-think the decision on Calistro's behalf!

[Armilus]

Sounds to me like you are bypassing the instance reset limit. Pretty sure that falls under bug abuse.

[bockhorn]

Sounds to me like you are bypassing the instance reset limit. Pretty sure that falls under bug abuse.

I assume you did not read what I wrote just above your post. I recommend that you read it and then edit your post, since it clearly is mistaken.