Paladin Taunt

[Coreborn]

Good for you... iv also seen warlocks and shadow priests tank raid bosses....
But if your guild wants to carry you to preserve your idealism than by all means go for it.

But don't thing for a second that you bring something to the raid that others couldn't done better,
and only reason paladins even get an raid invite is for the buffs, and if you first gonna be there
leeching a spot, you might aswell make yourself useful in a way that benefits and supports the raid.

That includes task such as.
- Buffing every 15 min (because this is the reason you are even in the raid)
- Out of Combat Ressing
- Healing duties, cleansing and boss sealing (wisdom/light)

[Theloras]

You're here to tank. Not brag about your DPS as a 'tank' while aoeing.

See you and your whiney concerns in TBC.

I'm also here to blow $hit up - and I do that really well on top of Main Tanking, AOE Tanking or whatever the situation calls for - good luck doing damage as s Prot Warrior bro or AOE tanking for that matter

[Theloras]

- Out of Combat Ressing

LAWL @ YOU - I'd rather pew pew or tank a boss bro - more immersive and enjoyable an experience than OOC rezzing

[Shionmage]

11 Years of WoW... everyone that played Vanilla back in 2004-2006 simply understood:

Paladins do have Protection Tree, but they are not as good as Protections Warriors.
Yes, you can tank as paladin, but no, you are not as good as a Protection Warrior of the same skill.
Yes, you can AoE tank as paladin and probably build up a nice DPS doing so, and maybe you do it even better than a Protection Warrior, but that's it.
But hey! You are a nice healer and buffer and that was the spot Paladins used to have back then.

[Theloras]

11 Years of WoW... everyone that played Vanilla back in 2004-2006 simply understood:

Paladins do have Protection Tree, but they are not as good as Protections Warriors.
Yes, you can tank as paladin, but no, you are not as good as a Protection Warrior of the same skill.
Yes, you can AoE tank as paladin and probably build up a nice DPS doing so, and maybe you do it even better than a Protection Warrior, but that's it.
But hey! You are a nice healer and buffer and that was the spot Paladins used to have back then.

And I've been disproving ideas like this since 2004-2006...

For any 5man or 10man instance, we are better tanks than Warriors - for Scholomance or Stratholme - naga please we can do AOE speed runs all day erry day.

[diogenes]

For any 5man or 10man instance, we are better tanks than Warriors - for Scholomance or Stratholme - naga please we can do AOE speed runs all day erry day.

I'm just going to be honest with you Theloras. You could do an aoe speed run with a SL warlock using a voidwalker and hellfiring too. Paladin's aren't the only class that can do this. The only reason warlocks don't typically do this is because they have it all in their head to stack shadow damage for shadowbolt damage and not to gear for survivability.

Even with the gear and consumables that are available in the game RIGHT NOW its entirely possible for a warlock to get 5k health and near 30% damage mitigation from armor. Combine that with 30% damage mitigation from soul link and 10% additional physical damage mitigation from the voidwalker (not to mention a huge damage absorption shield from saccing the void walker and then fel domination+summon vw+soul link in a bad scenario), warlocks can easily tank 5 man dungeons (when the content has been trivalized by their gear).

Admittedly paladins are very good at aoe tanking in bwl, aq, and naxx before the content is trivialized, but I'm telling you a soul ink warlock can tank these things as well. In retail, we used to have a warlock respec soul link just to aoe tank the dragonkin before nef. However, the only way you can tank normal 5 mans and mt raids is if you've already trivialized the content with your gear and consumables, and the same is true for paladins.

I'm really not trying to piss on your parade here. Paladins have some great utitity, but to suggest that a prot paladin can tackle progression level boss fights as well as a prot warrior is fundamentally wrong, if only because you don't have the survivability skills that warriors do (shield wall, last stand, life giving gem [even though life giving gem isn't yet available, it will be when progression becomes an actual thing] and tank gear itemization that is far superior to prot pallies). Consumables can solve most of the problems that people claim prot paladins have, but consumables cannot make up for the lack of survivability available to a warrior. Therefore, a warrior is better for progression level bosses every time.

If you want to make the argument that paladins can tank raids on farm status as well as warriors, I might actually grant you that. But if the raid is on farm, min/maxing isn't really a big deal.

[Theloras]

For any 5man or 10man instance, we are better tanks than Warriors - for Scholomance or Stratholme - naga please we can do AOE speed runs all day erry day.

I'm just going to be honest with you Theloras. You could do an aoe speed run with a SL warlock using a voidwalker and hellfiring too. Paladin's aren't the only class that can do this. The only reason warlocks don't typically do this is because they have it all in their head to stack shadow damage for shadowbolt damage and not to gear for survivability.

Even with the gear and consumables that are available in the game RIGHT NOW its entirely possible for a warlock to get 5k health and near 30% damage mitigation from armor. Combine that with 30% damage mitigation from soul link and 10% additional physical damage mitigation from the voidwalker (not to mention a huge damage absorption shield from saccing the void walker and then fel domination+summon vw+soul link in a bad scenario), warlocks can easily tank 5 man dungeons (when the content has been trivalized by their gear).

Admittedly paladins are very good at aoe tanking in bwl, aq, and naxx before the content is trivialized, but I'm telling you a soul ink warlock can tank these things as well. In retail, we used to have a warlock respec soul link just to aoe tank the dragonkin before nef. However, the only way you can tank normal 5 mans and mt raids is if you've already trivialized the content with your gear and consumables, and the same is true for paladins.

I'm really not trying to piss on your parade here. Paladins have some great utitity, but to suggest that a prot paladin can tackle progression level boss fights as well as a prot warrior is fundamentally wrong, if only because you don't have the survivability skills that warriors do (shield wall, last stand, life giving gem [even though life giving gem isn't yet available, it will be when progression becomes an actual thing] and tank gear itemization that is far superior to prot pallies). Consumables can solve most of the problems that people claim prot paladins have, but consumables cannot make up for the lack of survivability available to a warrior. Therefore, a warrior is better for progression level bosses every time.

If you want to make the argument that paladins can tank raids on farm status as well as warriors, I might actually grant you that. But if the raid is on farm, min/maxing isn't really a big deal.

Please read through my posts again as you are putting words in my mouth:

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/222/zkw7.jpg

A warlock can't use Force Reactive Disc which is what separates a Paladin from a Warlock AoE tanking never mind the fact that Hellfire does damage to the warlock at the same time.

Nor was I advocating for Paladins to tank raid bosses here on Nostalrius - 40man Raid boss tanking isn't my thing and never has been although Cysthen and Killerduki have Main Tanked raid bosses like no one's business forever back on Peenix.

For the screenshot of me showing the BWL gauntlet up to and including Broodlord fight, I didn't tank the boss - once the Broodlord was engaged, I tanked any adds that got pulled in accidentally due to respawns otherwise I helped heal the Warrior tanks. If I stopped and took a screenshot of just the gauntlet itself, my DPS would have been 3k-4k as that is what I was pulling while AoE tanking the entire gauntlet.

You can see the #2 and #3 players behind me were both warlocks (Meista and Pascas) but even with me not doing much during the Broodlord fight while they were single target DPSing Broodlord, they are still miles behind me in total DPS for the entire 10-15 minute gauntlet/boss encounter.

They tried to Hellfire AoE tank with me but my absurdly high AoE dmg with Force Reactive Disc procs on every block which then chains to all targets on top of Consecration et al meant that they couldn't come close to the AoE dmg that I was able to put out.

That being said, I've tanked all 5mans levelling up as Ret spec and also all at 60 as well as UBRS/LBRS and Paladins do it better than Warriors as we can tank multiple mobs at the same time. I'm currently PvP Reck with an 11/25/15 spec and I both destroy horde in PvP with 1shot goodness as well as tank like a mofo.

All things being equal, go nuts with 5man SL Warlock tanking - try new things - give yourself a challenge and see if you can push through content in a way not universally thought of or accepted.

My main point is have fun playing your class!

[Two]

I've been playing Paladin tank since vanilla release (and never changed it), and I can tell you that Paladins are fine tanks, just too different for most people to understand.

Your main source of aggro is getting hit. If your group mates actually manage to wait long enough for that to happen, a Paladin can tank up to 10 mobs at once without loosing aggro once (unless he dies). Other aggro options include healing and mana seal, as those do AE aggro as well. You just need to get a little more creative than spamming one button to be a good Paladin tank.

The bad thing about Paladin tanks is mainly the itemization, as Blizzard considered the Paladin a pure healer class at first, then gave it a few tank/DPS items, then considered it pure healer again. Aside from that there are several bosses that get really easy if you have a paladin tank, mostly those that contain lots of low-hitting adds. Panther boss in ZG is a good example: while a warrior has serious issues tanking all the panthers and survive it, a Paladin can just consecrate and then tank them with on-hit damage, while Sanctuary reduces the incoming damage to almost zero.

[smilkovpetko]

It is funny to read the topic name , so i have dodge/avoid the comments to read.

I have been Maintanking Vanilla Retail 15/15 Naxx.

I have been Tanking in Peenix 10/15 Naxx.
I have been Maintanking Maexxna , Patchwerk (even soaking it too) , Thaddius , Twins. (hardest to survive for any tank).
I have evidence for that too (if nostalrius allows me to post) .

We are not warriors and blizzard have done proper 3 spec for us so i disagree with everyone who say "paladin is made for healer" which is clearly not.

Anyway people deny to experiment same way as it's been done in retail vanilla.
I play 10 years Paladin Tank and i telling you that we have every item and required abilities to tank any boss that exist in game even far better than warriors.
If you still don't believe or think that i talk delusional ask me any boss and i will give you proper info how to.

Cheers by Killerduki.

I have been there in vanilla and many would say i was there too but i can question him many stuffs about it and investigate if he was really there or its just false propaganda.
Hybrids in Retail Vanilla was called people that use points at same time mixed on 3 specs equal and was mostly pvp spec.

Today people got it wrong and calling druids,palas as hybrids which is wrong. but anyway we must live with their point of view.

We don't need Taunt at all and anyone who think in that way clearly never played vanilla WoW.

[Theloras]

First off, 75% of the raid bosses are immune to taunt to begin with...

And secondly, both Challenging Shout and Taunt can and do miss since they are actually considered spells and thus require +Spell Hit to work properly which is why Warrior Tier 3 Dreadnaught armour has the following set bonus:

4 pieces: Improves your chance to hit with Taunt and Challenging Shout by 5%.
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?itemset=523

And warriors would use this trinket in combination with the T3 Dreadnaught set bonus in order to 100% make sure that taunt would work in the Four Horsemen fight:

Nat Pagle's Broken Reel
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 60
Use: Increases the chance to hit with spells by 10% for 15 sec. (cooldown 1.25 min)

By valkyr on 11/25/2006 (Patch 1.12.2)
Makes Four Horsemen a joke. 4 piece Dreadnaught takes spell resist chance down to 11%, so with this you have a 1% chance to resist taunt.

The cooldown is only 1.25 minutes, so by the time the tank has to get to the next station, its cooldown is up. The fight is certainly possible to do without it, just makes learning/executing the transitions a whole hell of a lot easier.
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19947

/thread