Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Lets have a respectable thread for once, though this thread won't apply to the PVE server.

I love vanilla, the leveling is an adventure and the instances don't hold your hand either. Plus, old AV is really fun. As someone who plays retail still, the leveling and 5man instance experience blows it all out of the water. I put in 10 /played days over 20 days, then got to 60. Also busted the myth of "once you reach a certain level you run out of quests" as I never did, and even a few of them were buggy.

However, I noticed something through my travels. I didn't notice it until I was in the 50s, but if I did when I was in the 10s, I would have stopped. That's how bad this is.

Something that I notice, was that people would sit in a neutral town or someplace where theres a lot of level 50-60 traffic, and kill people. If I read this myself, I would say "town guards won't let that happen and being on a roof is against the rules". However, these people will stand in certain spots in cities where they are just barely out of the guard's agro radius. Next to the bank in Everlook, or in front of the forge in Light's hope.

Now, this would be fine and dandy if guards agro'd onto them if you stood next to a guard, but due to how things work, thats not the case.

However, that is minor compared to the glaring problem. Lets say you walk into town, Undead Mage #4563514 pops up as your target, you turn and see hes charging a frostbolt. How do you handle this?
Use a ranged ability of your own on the mage: Guards agro onto you because you're the one next to the guards. Even though he hit you first, and they can clearly see you getting attacked by him since you're humping a lucky goblin's skull, they do nothing.
Run towards the mage and get into the place hes in to avoid agroing the guards: You're slowed by the frost mage, or concussion shotted by the hunter, or entangle rooted by the druid, or frost shocked by the shaman, or net-o-matic by anyone else. He racks up quite a bit of damage onto you before you can do anything against him. Of course paladins can bubble, rogues can vanish(or just stealth before they're hit). Problem is, one of those is alliance only, and the other is only one class. If you're anything else? Free kill!
Die, respawn next to him: You're at half health and half mana, free kill but worth slightly less honor
Get my friends: This community is, lack of better word, "toxic" when it comes to pvp. If you're being killed. "Just let the kid have his fun" or "go to a pve server". Yes, a few times someone will come in and bash his brains...or lack thereof, out. But this doesn't happen that often. And what if you have no friends? What if no one is around? Why must it take 2 to kill 1?

Now I know what you're thinking:
So? Griefing isn't against the rules. Are you saying it should be?

This is where I have a problem. I don't mind killing someone 40 levels below you or camping a body for an hour. Granted, it might hint to some... problems that you might need to see a therapist for if the person is some random joe and not someone who you have a grudge against.

The problem comes from being rewarded for it. I was watching a mage via eagle eye on my hunter doing this, for hours, and hours, and hours. If you're curious, I had a movie(superman vs the elite, then batman the dark knight returns) to the side that I was watching for the most part, but I had to refresh my eagle eye so I knew when he left, which he didn't.

I then kind of ranted at a community, got told to shut up, and their reasoning is WPVP alone can't get you a good rank.

This guy was a Lieutenant General and today he ranked up to General.

There is absolutely no skill involved in killing people in such a manner, so why is this being rewarded? Not even RETAIL gives people such good rewards for a display of skill twice as good as that. When retail is doing something that is less easy, you know you have a problem.

HOW TO FIX IT!
If you just skimmed to this part and read it, read the rest of the thread before commenting against it.

1. Add a extra guard in these spots. I don't know if this is possible, but just one guard at maybe 4 key locations, bam, no more free honor. The problem is, well, a lot of griefing is gone and thats why some people do it. The community will probably get super upset.

2. Reduce honor gained from world PVP. 100 honor is roughly what you get for a full kill on someone your level. These people can get a kill a minute. 720 in just half a day, 72000 honor for one half day with no skill involved. Times that by 7. 500k for doing this half a day for every day. I've even seen 4 kills a minute. Why bother doing battlegrounds? Cut this down to 10%. 50k a week. Its more than I'd like for no skill involved, but at least they won't be ranking up too well. Thing is, the community won't get mad at this!!! Well, some would, specifically those who want easy points, but those who form PVP groups, maximize their character, and kick ass, would love to not see Xiaoyangazn with the GM/HW weapons.(I dont know if someone's name is actually Xiaoyangazn, I just took the 3 most common parts of chinese player's names and put them together.)

3. Straight up, make it bannable. I have a love/hate relationship with the GMs here. They're helpful and they respond quickly, but telling me "standing in a spot safe from agroing guards by outranging guards is not safespotting" makes me scratch my head. For one, why does it matter if they are on a roof or on the ground? If they are on the roof, they get shot and knocked off. Secondly, this will end bad players getting good ranks probably instantly. Getting banned for a week would kill anyone's rating. Now, if the person is OUTSIDE the town, that should be A-OK, because then that might be a gray area cause what if someone is attacking someone and they're both out of town and the attacked runs to the guard and the person attacking shoots them as they run inside before agroing the guards, that can be wonky. So only if you're standing within the walls of the town. However, I do realize "walls of the town" can be misunderstood, lights hope has no walls. What I mean is, within the guard's premeter. Think of a octagon a guard at each corner, if you're within that octagon killing people without agroing, ban.... well, maybe a warning first since it'll be a new rule.

As I said, please be respectable in your replies, as I tried to do the same.

Snoipah wrote:
2. Reduce honor gained from world PVP. 100 honor is roughly what you get for a full kill on someone your level. These people can get a kill a minute. 720 in just half a day, 72000 honor

You dont know how honor works, if you kill the same target in a 24 hour time frame, you get reduced honor per kill, around the 11th kill on the same target you get no honor. And reducing all World PvP honor is a bad idea, since its more difficult for the majority to find kills in the world and most of the time you will be 1v1 in an ambush situation. You want to change a major facet of the game because a very small minority is using it to their advantage.

Also:

Snoipah wrote: Lets have a respectable thread for once (......) Granted, it might hint to some... problems that you might need to see a therapist.

You break your own rule for this thread by making that statement, bravo.

How do you handle this?

Turn around. Go out of range. That's it.
If we're talking LHC here, you can also LoS casts by entering the church, and if you want to reach the Alliance flymaster, you go around the building and reach the NPC almost effortlessly.
This thread is meaningless, although I do agree that the situation in Light's Hope Chapel is ridiculous, since pre-Naxx it shouldn't have any guards at all.

Kind regards, Undead Mage #4563515

thenuclearwalrus wrote:You dont know how honor works, if you kill the same target in a 24 hour time frame, you get reduced honor per kill, around the 11th kill on the same target you get no honor. And reducing all World PvP honor is a bad idea, since its more difficult for the majority to find kills in the world and most of the time you will be 1v1 in an ambush situation. You want to change a major facet of the game because a very small minority is using it to their advantage.

There is a ton of people that come in and out of flight paths and towns, its not just the same person.

I don't know if you know this, but this is a big server. I've seen it peak at 14k, and I've seen plenty of different people go through these freekillzones

Also
"since its more difficult for the majority to find kills in the world"
Have you ever been in contested territory?

"You want to change a major facet of the game because a very small minority is using it to their advantage."
So if I discover something in the game that lets me 1shot every boss in raids by myself, and don't share it, its perfectly fine because I am just a small minority who do it? Cool, I'd be looking forward to breaking this game if I wasn't someone who actually cares about a challenge when I play video games.

You sound like somebody who hasn't leveled to 60, or even 20(when you join contested zones, usually) or someone who plays on the PVE realm.

thenuclearwalrus wrote:Also:
You break your own rule for this thread by making that statement, bravo.

Sounds like you're taking that comment the wrong way. I'm sorry to hear that, but stay with the topic at hand.

Ghostly wrote:Turn around. Go out of range. That's it.
If we're talking LHC here, you can also LoS casts by entering the church, and if you want to reach the Alliance flymaster, you go around the building and reach the NPC almost effortlessly..

I already mentioned slows in my post. Getting out of range is not as easy as you think, especially if a mage sheeps you, then blows everything on you. The range at LHC for alliance's FP and the safe spot is extremely close, you will land 3 spells before they get out of range.

Ghostly wrote:Kind regards, Undead Mage #4563515

You didn't need to tell me this, it was kind of obvious.

Snoipah wrote:...

I'm probably going to surprise you a lot here, but you're going to need some situational awareness to survive out in the world. If you approach a known ganking spot and see a ganker there, then you're not supposed to let him cast anyting on you. It's not rocket science, safespot ganking is much easier to evade than the usual wPvP, which should be taking place in LHC before 1.11 patch. If you need that FP really bad, then die and rez on top of it. And if you dont want to deal with any inconveniences of sharing a game world with a hostile faction, then stop whining and roll on PvE server.

changes to best part of game.. ?

No... roll pve or realize what you joined here in firstplace. Sorry, there is no other option.
There is nothing wrong with world pvp here.

Thanks for your book. Hopefully some will read it some day.

Ghostly wrote:

Snoipah wrote:...

I'm probably going to surprise you a lot here, but you're going to need some situational awareness to survive out in the world. If you approach a known ganking spot and see a ganker there, then you're not supposed to let him cast anyting on you. It's not rocket science, safespot ganking is much easier to evade than the usual wPvP, which should be taking place in LHC before 1.11 patch. If you need that FP really bad, then die and rez on top of it. And if you dont want to deal with any inconveniences of sharing a game world with a hostile faction, then stop whining and roll on PvE server.

You dont understand.

I dont mind dying, what I mind is someone getting rewarded for having no skill.

Snoipah wrote:I dont mind dying, what I mind is someone getting rewarded for having no skill.

Vanilla ranking doesn't reqiure skill, it never did. The only thing you need to achieve high rank is commitment, lots and lots of free time you can spend in BGs with your premade, effortlessly stomping pugs or even playing empty games because people dodge you. And that's also where you get the most honor from. Such is the nature of this game.