A different point of view on this game.

[Simonich]

It is true that most players just look forward to be "the best" or "awesome".

How do you do that? As far as I know, its achieving rank 14 or clearing all the game's content + having the best gear, and being rich. Most people just look upon those 3 targets, more less. That way, there really is little uniqueness between players.

It also feels like a race, people often rush towards those targets, having in their minds that only after they reach those targets, only then they can have fun, but after it there's not much to do in the end. People stick to only what the game offers them, but don't think how players can create THEIR OWN content, events in this case. Endless sorts of events can be created from someone who has a little creativity, at least.

People don't embrace the enormous social aspect of this game. One basic, simple, but yet rare social-oriented event that one may create is guild meetings. Where at a specific time and place, you meet with your guildies, and simply talk, duel, discuss events for your guild, roleplay, many entertaining things. And get a feeling as you're part of something. Here for example : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28300

Yet, that day, I had about 90 people online in my guilds, only 40 attended after constant announcements of the event. It was really good getting that many people, but if you think about it there were half more that refused to come even if we offered summons. Why? Well all the refusing responses were like "sorry I'd rather grab some levels atm!" or "I'm farming AV rep" or "i want to be useful soon so im gonna lvl". Etc

Useful.... Well I mean yeah, of course everyone should lvl up/gear up. But you can do that anytime, you don't have to be in a hurry and prioritize that while ignoring guild events! After all leveling can be tedious, relax a little . Of course, you start playing the game, you want to be lvl 60, everyone does. But don't obsess on continuously becoming "better", take your time, do what you really enjoy, not what makes you look "better" towards others. And try new things!

Some people are willing to go through the grind to rank 14, hours of doing the 2 same instanced battlegrounds for months, while not being allowed to do anything else, if you really wanna go for it.
5 months of slightly forcingly grinding bgs, just to get some cool looking and effective gear, is it really worth it?

Regarding roleplay, its funny how there's a stereotype of basically the word "roleplayer" being an insult. You forget this is a roleplaying game (RPG), if you don't like it, don't do it, don't have to show off your disapproval using MLGsh terms the whole time. Roleplay is what improved my grammar and vocabulary after all, but that's not the point, its a sort of entertainment other than killing stuff the whole time.

But really what's bad in doing a couple of epic speeches before a battle? It makes things epic.

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That is all, whatever I said above is an opinion, and probably unsaid opinion of plenty of others. It is a suggestion to the community, an expression of thoughts. I did not state how things should be, you can conclude to whatever you will

[Sharax]

Simonch, that is why I played on an RP-PvP server on retail, where player created content (events, meetings, RP-fueled WPvP etc) was what made the game enjoyable.

I think too many people fall into the "look at me" pitfall, trying to grind end-game "success".

[winfernal]

Imo. Trying to hard is waste, it's a 10 year old game. The tier 3 and r14 gear isn't as cool as it used to be in retail. Just do what you enjoy the most, it's not a race or a competition. One should not feel forced to do it because "everybody else does it".But ofc, if getting the best gear and the highest rank is what you enjoy the most, enjoy!

[bockhorm]

I agree with your general point of view. I joined your redridge raid yesterday with one of my alts (level 60 tho), put on some heavy metal music (Manowar ftw) and just zerged around and had a real blast. Sure I'm a tryharding PvE myself and I take my raiding game very seriously so item progression is for sure very important to me and I often get stuck in this "how-does-this-benefit-me?" kind of thinking. Ironically, I basically have to force myself to join these kind of events even though I always end up having so much fun, heh. I also think a lot of people share this view, they realize somewhere along the road that its not so much about the end-goal as it is about having fun on the way there.

I think the obsession with reaching end-goals is very amptly described by looking at rankers, and im thinking about rank 14 people here. Having ranked to 12 myself over a long period of time, I played/socialized/heard about many who was or eventually reached rank 14 and its staggering how many of them who just disappear afterwards. Part of this is surely because they burn themselves out but I honestly think that the vast majority quits because they realize that once you are at the top, it doesn't feel as joyful to play anymore. The trick is here, of course, to first of all have different goals and not only think about the end-result in everything one does, but also, to enjoy the ride.

Lastly, if you think about. What do you actaully remember as pinnacle moments in the end? Sure, downing bosses the first time but that feeling also loses its charm (while not disappearing completely, of course). Imo. its the "RP" events made by players. I remember the massive raid organized by Papanosta on Ironforge in late spring, that was awesome even tho it failed.

[sownu]

MMOs and many games generally are designed to provide you challenge and a reward. That rat race is very common and is main reason people actually play imo.

When you achieve some goal in life after putting some effort into it, you get huge dopamine release and feel good for a while. And you can show off your achievements to other people and feel superior! WoW simulates this so good it's no wonder people get addicted and invest huge amount of time in game. Not to mention other things in game that add to that "effort>reward>feel good" cycle. And it makes sense also that when people reach THE ULTIMATE END REWARD (BiS gear from all content, all bosses dead, R14 etc, its subjective) they quit game as there is no more effort>reward that interests them.

I dont find it weird at all that most people play exactly for that, i play it for same reason. It's a pretty nice experience, and it doesnt make any sense to look down to people who do exactly what game asks from them.

Im sure there are many role-players or people who avoid race and play purely for social factor, that would love to do events like that, why dont you make simple role playing guild not ask from people to play the game in the way you imagine, when it was not designed for it really.

[Steelbash]

100% agreeing with you.

People "must" do stuff and "don't have time"... It's a game! You "must" do nothing! The competitive race for gearing up is useless since this is a private server and at the end of the day T3 is the last thing coming out. Period. Then what?
Ofc i understand most people love raiding , i do too! But alot of times i feel people are not enjoying anymore and turning the game into some kind of job that their addiction keeps them mindlessly playing to get gear for the sake of it.

[Simonich]

MMOs and many games generally are designed to provide you challenge and a reward. That rat race is very common and is main reason people actually play imo.

When you achieve some goal in life after putting some effort into it, you get huge dopamine release and feel good for a while. And you can show off your achievements to other people and feel superior! WoW simulates this so good it's no wonder people get addicted and invest huge amount of time in game. Not to mention other things in game that add to that "effort>reward>feel good" cycle. And it makes sense also that when people reach THE ULTIMATE END REWARD (BiS gear from all content, all bosses dead, R14 etc, its subjective) they quit game as there is no more effort>reward that interests them.

I dont find it weird at all that most people play exactly for that, i play it for same reason. It's a pretty nice experience, and it doesnt make any sense to look down to people who do exactly what game asks from them.

Im sure there are many role-players or people who avoid race and play purely for social factor, that would love to do events like that, why dont you make simple role playing guild not ask from people to play the game in the way you imagine, when it was not designed for it really.

That's why I wrote that last paragraph on my post. The thing is it has really gotten to a point where the road to rank 14 isn't joyful at all. I've seen people literally say they don't like what they do, they're on for the reward. In this case, its like 5 months of grinding the same 2 instanced battlegrounds that you don't even really like.

Some people are just way too focused on those targets, that just don't do anything else than that. Others who are ranking would want to do anything else, but they dont, since the more honor you farm the more effective progress you get.

I already have a world-pvp guild where we do massive events often with 30 participants less more just from our guild. We have 4 guilds atm cause of the member limit, all with the same orientation.

Quote : "That is all, whatever I said above is an opinion, and probably unsaid opinion of plenty of others. It is a suggestion to the community, an expression of thoughts. I did not state how things should be, you can conclude to whatever you will"

[Killstick]

Maybe your members want to lvl and gear up so they can world PvP vs more skilled and equal geared players. For example going to blackrock mountain at raidtimes.

PvP at low lvl isn't that interesting. Especially since you don't know what lvl of oppenents you will meet. I would feel bad killing a lvl 30 as lvl 40. Because all he will get is resists. Redridge is fun for a couple of times, but i can't imagine it being fun after the 5th time. Not all people may have the same amount of time to spend as you do.

If you take your shit to the lvl cap and go world pvp then atleast you can seek out the zones where you will meet people of your own lvl.

Atm im lvling my shaman while grinding some gold to do just that. Ofc i will still do WSG rep farm. But I'm looking forward to going to BRM, can't wait for the Silithus PvP when AQ gets released, go kill some devilsaur shitters. Go duel some infront of ironforge. Join a premade in a BG weekend to heal some. Go kill some DME farmers.

TL:DR; i can understand how you interpret the gear farm as boring but some people just want to improve their gear and skill to PvP/wPvP at a higher lvl.

[Simonich]

Again, you take it as if I'm extreme on my opinion.

I'm talking about those who ONLY target such things and literally never join any other kind of events. As if they're in a rush.

I'm not telling you to join my wpvp raid as low lvls, fine. After all we started doing more lvl 60 focused wpvp raids lately. But like, just a social guild meeting when you spend a little time to meet your fellow members "up close", with more immersion. Discussing guild ideologies, and having some rare atmosphere created.

Again the last paragraph of OP still stands here