Where is the challenge?

[Arucado]

Everybody has always said, vanilla is hard, it's a challenge, retail is so easy...

PVE

Well, i am a warr dps, i am full bis pre raid. And i've cleared all the content (MC+Onyxia) doing pugs in weeks.

Is this the fascinating hardcore vanilla content? because to be honest, it's the easier shit i've ever seen in wow.

Bosses are so damn easy, onyxia has 3 steps. (1- dont agro phase , 2- hide fire breath, 3- kill, hardcore t2 boss)

MC. Even speaking about ragnaros, all i did as dps was (hit ragna, go out, go in, hit, oh phase 2 kill adds!, nuke) So damn easy, ragna died in the first try)

So yes, as many people said, vanilla is all about time, because boss mechanics are so simple and easy as i explained.

PVP

And speaking about pvp, better not saying anything. BG's are unplayable, i always play unbalanced games as 15 horde vs 3 ally and viceversa. Playing warrior is so damn boring you are kitted 100% 24/7 by every class and nuked if you 1v1.
It's not about premades, it's the player mentality, people don't want to spend 40 min to lose a bg, and people who rank just do premade 24/7. So the game is so simple as you enter in a bg, if the opposite faction has 5 more players everyone who joins the party does /afk and logout.

So to sum up. Yes i love vanilla content, it's the best, and is so nostalgic to me. I love old dungeon, armors, raids, everything seems too realistic, but really, content is fucked up. Classes are so damn unbalanced and boring as the pve content is because of it's challenge.

"It's everything about gear and time, no difficulty."

[Crysthal]

Vanilla was not hard.
Fuck everybody

I think you mix things up!

progressing on heroic(aka mythic) is the thoughest shit in the wow history. But everything besides that (and high rated arena/bg) is utterly easy and boring whereas in vanilla leveling is more difficult (for noobs) and less forgiving. Vanilla endgame raiding was at a time when most of the people had no clue about bis lists, rotations and gameplay in general. The harder stuff like aq40/naxx was mainly hard because you needed gear from that instance to clear it as not the bossmechanics were the problem but the overall enragetimers and incoming DMG.

[gotmilk0112]

Vanilla isn't *hard*, no, it's just much harder than retail. Most of the difficulty comes from overcoming bad class balance and clunky mechanics.

[Sojourn]

content doesn't become difficult until AQ

[sidesprang]

Vanilla isn't *hard*, no, it's just much harder than retail. Most of the difficulty comes from overcoming bad class balance and clunky mechanics.

its not harder than retail wtf....

[Setup]

The fights never really get that challenging. I guess C'thun (if you dont use warlock alts), or Kel'Thuzad, are kind of challenging. (Even 4 horseman was only kind of challenging when Feenix quadrupled their HP pool.)

The challenge that people are interested in when describing the difference between retail and vanilla isn't strictly mechanical challenge, though. A considerable deal of it is in the social challenge of working with 40 people over a long period of time, organizing 5-man groups, that kind of thing, which has been largely stripped from retail.

[Setup]

There's also a kind of inherent difficulty to raiding with 40 people.

If your average raider only fucks up 1/100 attempts, and you have 40 raiders, there's a 40% chance one person will fuck up. Sometimes fights are tuned to where it only takes 1-3 fuckups to cause a wipe, and that's 'difficult.'

[Praxxia]

Most people who love vanilla private servers don't love it because pvp/pve is "hard". They love that you have to actually put a decent amount of time into everything. You aren't just instantly rewarded with free epics for dinging max level.

All of that said, content was hard during retail vanilla. There were very, very few accurate resources. Often times you would just rely on other players of your class for information about how to pvp/pve- which as you can imagine led to a lot of mis-information. Imagine a 40man raid where very few have BiS or optimal specs and people are on dial-up with a lot of server crashes.

I still remember strolling around in my full Tier1 gear thinking I was the bees knees. How could a green/blue with more spell damage possibly compare to my mighty epic that has arcane resistance and spirit? By the time people started catching on about how to spec/gear, raids started becoming harder and harder- AQ + Naxx.

[Pugger]

There's also a kind of inherent difficulty to raiding with 40 people.

If your average raider only fucks up 1/100 attempts, and you have 40 raiders, there's a 40% chance one person will fuck up. Sometimes fights are tuned to where it only takes 1-3 fuckups to cause a wipe, and that's 'difficult.'

wtf? maths dont work like that

if u have 100 raiders its a 100% someone will fuck up then?

[Sardonic]

There's also a kind of inherent difficulty to raiding with 40 people.

If your average raider only fucks up 1/100 attempts, and you have 40 raiders, there's a 40% chance one person will fuck up. Sometimes fights are tuned to where it only takes 1-3 fuckups to cause a wipe, and that's 'difficult.'

wtf? maths dont work like that

if u have 100 raiders its a 100% someone will fuck up then?

lol, her math is wrong but it would be more like a 33% chance that at least one person messes up, which isn't that far from 40%. Though I would strongly question the assumption that your average raider fucks up 1/100 attempts (that seems rather infrequent)