Paladin (and/or Shaman) tank viability

[smilkovpetko]

Bear. At least he doesn't require innervates to function. Also has taunt.

In which they can't be even close to Paladin Threats. Paladin never need innervates at all.

Regarding Topic:

Are Paladin tanks very underperforming at this task? How do they fare in :

Regarding Paladins in which majority will give you False information spreading by lies
Me as Experienced Protection Paladin that has Leading Success and Progress over 10 Years Playing this Spec will answer you how they are :


- Levelling 5-mans when gear can be scarce (Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Scarlet Monastery, Uldaman, etc)

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22875

Watch my Paladin Tanking Scarlet Monastery at low level will answer you this question.

- Level 60 5-mans when gear can probably be crafted to help them (Scholomance, Stratholme, Blackrock Spire, Blackrock depths)

Protection Paladin is by Far the best Tank for 5 Mans compare to Warriors and Druids , in which you will be ToP DPS,Threat,AoE Tank. + your runs will be always fastest and smooth/easy.

- Maybe you'll find this unnecessary, but how about raids (if completely unviable for 40 mans, how about UBRS 10-man, or 20 mans) ?

This is missconfusion based by false informers , we in fact are Viable in Raids and there are even 40 man Fights in which we are Far Superior Tanks as Paladins than any other Tank.

Protection Paladin by far can Tank every single Raid Boss in Game that Exist Even Far better than Druid Bear , in comparison with the Warriors we have some Special Tanking Benefits in which fights we are Best:

"far better than warriors/druids"

Garr = Single Paladin Maintank can do the job of 4 Warrior Tanks and 4 Warlocks combined.
Sulfuron Harbinger = Single Paladin Maintank can do the job of 3 Warrior Tanks.
Ouro = Single Paladin Can AOE all Trash and Tank the Boss at same time.
The Prophet Skeram = Paladin can Solo Tank Boss together with his Clones.
Broodlord = Where this is Warriors Main Aggro Issue , Paladin is doing 3 times more Aggro and Damage Dealers don't have to wait at all.
Neffarian = Paladin's don't need Berserker Stance and Holy Damage can still increase Aggro when Boss use Paladin Class Call.
Thaddius = Paladin increases it's Melee and Spell at a same time with the debuffs, this affect extremely his Threats compare to Poor Warriors so Damage Dealers can go crazy nuking.
C'thun = Paladin Can Tank the Claws at p3 and Heal at same time.
Kel'Thuzad = Exorcism is the best "Taunt" anytime when boss does his Mindcontrol and wipe out everyone's aggro, Meanwhile Warriors have enormous issue because Boss is immune to Taunt.
Onyxia = Aoe babys + immune to Taunt <3.


Also = Threat is part of Surviving and Progressing. Paladin Tank can do far more Threats than warrior and this allows Damage Dealers to full DPS in order to kill the Boss Faster.

Evidences of Raid Bosses for Proof that we can do All Bosses in Raid that exist :

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=56685F8D

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=569A5CEF

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=569D232A

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=569B316D

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5668F94D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovC3fkojlE Razorgore Part 1 Trash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXV1lqIJr9w Razorgore Part 2 Trash+Boss.

Mana Management Spamming Max Rank Consecrations (watch careful on the mana which false informers deny)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_YEl0Yp8I

Regarding Threats Theory (pre raid bis gear) with very minimum calculation and excluded from any special ability used over 3 minutes (holy shield and melee swings only) :

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20825&start=140#p154897

Regarding Threats on Short/Long Duration Raid Boss Fight (pre raid bis gear) with very minimum calculation and excluded from any special ability (based on melee swings only).

The longer Duration = The more TPS by main TPS ability = Melee Swings.

If fight is 360 Seconds = 100 k Threats by Melee Swings (Chromaggus) , if fight is 520 Seconds (Neffarian) = 150 k Threats by Melee Swings. (Excluded by all Attack power Gain or MP5 increased or other abilities used than melee swings) . @Preraid Gear.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20825&start=190#p155043

If you would be interested in mentioning shamans, which I've on occasion seen people argue can do moderate tanking, I'd also like your input.

They might have some Tanking Abilities but they are completely wiped out from that section and therefore are not meant and never been Tanks.

P.S i have respond this with Paladin Tank Player since you would collect from people that never played Paladin Tank false informations

[Oyani]

I know i tanked BRD as a paladin once or twice in early TBC, it worked out fine.
About shamans, there's a topic on this in the shaman forum. Doesn't seem like anyone has tried yet but i will definitely try it when i can afford it.

[Noselacri]

If you were to pit a bear tank vs a paladin tank (both of which underperform when compared to a warrior), which one would you say achieves its task better?

All paladins can really do is AoE tank. It isn't required anywhere - for obvious reasons, as it's an alliance class - and prot paladins are too useless in any situation besides AoE tanking that guilds can't really justify gearing up a paladin tank. Having no taunt, no tanking cooldowns, no tank stats on their gear sets, and not really able to become uncrushable, they're too squishy to be main tanks for anything besides content that the guild out-gears. Of all tank classes, paladins have by far the least survivability. Warriors have the tailor-made tanking gear, the uncrittability and the tanking cooldowns. Druids have the absurdly high armor and health.

Comrade Smilkovpetko a couple of posts above seems to suggest that a prot paladin can simply tank raid bosses plus all their adds that normally require offtanks, but that kind of thing isn't feasible while that content is relevant. The paladin is too squishy unless he's significantly overgeared for the content. One should also refrain from taking him seriously when he claims that prot paladins straight up generate three times as much threat as warriors. This guy has a history of making up absurd claims about the power of paladin tanks.

Feral druids are excellent offtanks. You shouldn't generally ask a druid to maintank a boss, although there's a few places throughout vanilla where that's valid or even preferable (raid leaders will know when this is), but they make the best dedicated offtanks due to their incredible utility and their ability to switch to DPS whenever they don't need to tank. Keeping one feral druid around is a good idea for any guild as they can basically have a full tank and DPS spec in one, making them better offtanks than fury warriors.

Also, when every piece of feral gear that ever drops for a guild goes to the same one druid, he'll be much better geared than a fury warrior in whatever tank gear has trickled down to him past the guild's prot warriors. There isn't a whole lot of feral druid gear until AQ, but there is some and it makes a difference when one druid gets it all. Contrary to popular belief, they also don't compete much with rogues for gear as they don't use rogue tier pieces or weapons, and favor items like this or this.

Every raid guild should consider keeping one feral druid for these reasons. The druid's DPS, considering the crit aura, is easily on par with a hunter's at the least. They're excellent offtanks with their extreme armor/hp, and where a warrior has to either be prot and thus useless outside of tanking or fury and thus not a particularly strong tank during progression, a feral druid can fill both roles pretty well as long as you don't pretend that he should maintank the boss. The fact that they can't (it's not that they literally can't, they just shouldn't, a few exceptions aside) has led many to believe that feral druids are pointless, but that's incorrect.

A prot paladin can't switch to DPS at the click of a button and go do decent DPS. He can't take part in a taunt rotation. He can't quickly grab a mob when the previous tank dies. Unlike a druid's Innervate+Rebirth which stacks infinitely, the paladin doesn't provide much utility if blessings are already covered without him. He's even worse at surviving damage than a druid. He competes with warriors for tank gear. He runs out of mana after a while unless extreme measures are employed, and they compromise other things such as his ability to use stoneshield potions.

[Bioness]

Bear. At least he doesn't require innervates to function. Also has taunt.

*snip*

Do you have a saved document or something that you just copy and paste whenever someone has the "audacity" to state facts regarding the viability of Paladins? We get it you were a "pro" Paladin tank on Feenix's broken server, however that doesn't change the fact that overall a Paladin's performance in anything other than AoE is inferior to a Warrior's, you just happen to put in more effort than most tanks.

[Problazer]

The biggest reason this paladin tank guy is an idiot is because he bases all of his metrics on regular auto attacks. When you consider the threat modifying and instant abilities the warrior has its not even close. The regular attack only is also ignoring the fact that warriors and Druids have 10% more threat in defensive or bear stance.

[smilkovpetko]

The biggest reason this paladin tank guy is an idiot is because he bases all of his metrics on regular auto attacks. When you consider the threat modifying and instant abilities the warrior has its not even close. The regular attack only is also ignoring the fact that warriors and Druids have 10% more threat in defensive or bear stance.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 10#p159637

The biggest reason this paladin tank guy is an idiot is because he bases all of his metrics on regular auto attacks.

When you consider the threat modifying and instant abilities the warrior has its not even close.

When you consider the threat modifying and instant abilities the Paladin has it's beyond illusions of your Warrior Threats.

by Bioness » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:53 am
Do you have a saved document or something that you just copy and paste whenever someone has the "audacity" to state facts regarding the viability of Paladins? We get it you were a "pro" Paladin tank on Feenix's broken server, however that doesn't change the fact that overall a Paladin's performance in anything other than AoE is inferior to a Warrior's, you just happen to put in more effort than most tanks.

You even said that Feenix was broken server in which consecration didn't scale with AP like here it does.

However the performance given in anything was explained on the quote i have pointed where Paladins are far better than Warriors :

"far better than warriors/druids"

Garr = Single Paladin Maintank can do the job of 4 Warrior Tanks and 4 Warlocks combined.
Sulfuron Harbinger = Single Paladin Maintank can do the job of 3 Warrior Tanks.
Ouro = Single Paladin Can AOE all Trash and Tank the Boss at same time.
The Prophet Skeram = Paladin can Solo Tank Boss together with his Clones.
Broodlord = Where this is Warriors Main Aggro Issue , Paladin is doing 3 times more Aggro and Damage Dealers don't have to wait at all.
Neffarian = Paladin's don't need Berserker Stance and Holy Damage can still increase Aggro when Boss use Paladin Class Call.
Thaddius = Paladin increases it's Melee and Spell at a same time with the debuffs, this affect extremely his Threats compare to Poor Warriors so Damage Dealers can go crazy nuking.
C'thun = Paladin Can Tank the Claws at p3 and Heal at same time.
Kel'Thuzad = Exorcism is the best "Taunt" anytime when boss does his Mindcontrol and wipe out everyone's aggro, Meanwhile Warriors have enormous issue because Boss is immune to Taunt.
Onyxia = Aoe babys + immune to Taunt <3.


Also = Threat is part of Surviving and Progressing. Paladin Tank can do far more Threats than warrior and this allows Damage Dealers to full DPS in order to kill the Boss Faster.

[Doofoos]

...

What's the point of this walls of text?
Show us some proofs from Nostalrius. Give us some names of actual paladin tanks in current content. Show us some raidstats of those guys. Invite them to this conversation.
Otherwise ...
Words are very unnecessary
They can only do harm

[smilkovpetko]

...

What's the point of this walls of text?
Show us some proofs from Nostalrius. Give us some names of actual paladin tanks in current content. Show us some raidstats of those guys. Invite them to this conversation.
Otherwise ...
Words are very unnecessary
They can only do harm

Those Paladins that play Protection don't even bother arguing with trolls and haters who tend to deny.

Otherwise i will be your proof when i hit lvl 60 in Nostalrius by frapsing every single Boss that exist in Server.

[Pugger]

...

What's the point of this walls of text?
Show us some proofs from Nostalrius. Give us some names of actual paladin tanks in current content. Show us some raidstats of those guys. Invite them to this conversation.
Otherwise ...
Words are very unnecessary
They can only do harm

Those Paladins that play Protection don't even bother arguing with trolls and haters who tend to deny.

Otherwise i will be your proof when i hit lvl 60 in Nostalrius by frapsing every single Boss that exist in Server.

i would like to see that... lets see...

[Ana]

He will gear up with AQ stuff and then start MTing MC. Fuck, I have a plan - gonna join his raid a few times and output maximum damage to see what happens when he loses aggro every 10 seconds

Do you have a saved document or something that you just copy and paste whenever someone has the "audacity" to state facts regarding the viability of Paladins?

Nailed it.