So I heard this server was good BUT...

[Fanadin]

I heard that trolls occasionally come on the forums and spout crap. Be on the lookout for those guys.

Only person spouting crap is you.

Nothing I've said is untrue.

I also played retail from launch and had the pleasure of wiping on vael pre-nerf. Theres no doubt in my mind that while the normal is now for players to understand min/max and rotations a lot better the skill of playrrs is actually lower. Most of the players on private servers are not as invested and not as knowledgeable aboutthe classes/encounters as they were on retail. That said most of them would out dps most players from retail due to better itemization/rotation.

That said, theres definitely something wrong with the dps ppl are able to pull. My gutt feeling is blizzard had damage mitigation on bosses where the raid bosses took less damage than a non-elite mob in the open world. It feels (no evidence) like what boss dr there is, is far lower than it was like on retail. For example vael is being killed in 90 seconds by some guilds, no matter how u wanna say it that was inpossible on retail till u had naxx gear. Rag without sons was the holeygrail but practically every guild does it here.

So yes, no matter what anyone tried to tell u damage is overtuned.

That said this is by far the best private server around. Pretty much everything works as intended and while the fights r a little easy its not meaningles lile most private servers. You can certainly get your progression accomplishment feeling from downing nef for the first time.

This is actually a good post.

thanks

[BoxerBriefly]

Honestly I played before the rag nerf (Don't remember patch, zul gurub didn't exist, meaning you had to do molten core with shit gear from BRS/strath/scholo... meaning everyone's gear was crap. BWL literally came out as i had quit.

made it a lot harder.

Rag was nearly impossible without ZG gear pre-nerf.

But i've heard that this server and all servers in general are missing key raiding code, which makes it a little different experience.

Okay, you asked a question, and a few people responded with legitimate answers, but, you still seem confused, so, I will try to clarify. Nostalrius, and nearly all classic private servers run a 1.12.1 client, that means that, while doing the likes of MC, BWL, and others, you have access to the final patch's talents, which makes a significant difference.

Also, when Nostalrius says they're simulating an earlier patch, that mostly has to do with lesser itemized gear and items, it does not affect talents. This, combined with players now having a vast knowledge of boss encounters, game mechanics, and spell rotations, simply put, makes a massive difference. Just to be super clear, it has nothing to do with damage formulas, or anything of the kind. Although, having talents that were intended for a later patch means that, naturally, you're going to be doing higher DPS than what was intended, during every instance that's not a part of patch 1.12.1. Hope that clears it up.

Edit: further clarity.

[Youfie]

Double post. Can't delete, sorry

[Datruth]

Nothing I've said is untrue.

True, but you haven't really said anything substantial yet. Right now this discussion consists of people just going by their hunches and their memory from 10 years back which frankly isn't worth much. Tell your pro code mate to come up with something a bit more concrete.

People now adays are more knowledgeable from all these years of experience since the first MMOs arrived, the massive influx of online guides, addons and pros streaming have also increased the average players knowledge of the game immensively. You may think you were all knowing back then, and I'm not trying to deny that, but I know for sure the majority of the people in your raids were baddies like my friends and myself, who for example spammed all my dots and kept reapplying them when they "for some odd reason" got knocked off the boss, also "consumables and pre-raid bis" was unheard of.

That is definitely a part of the explaination why we push higher numbers here on nost, not denying there can be other factors at play as well though.

[Lorilay]

Just looking at old videos of Naxx (mostly rogue PoV), their abilities are hitting for significantly less than what current rogues are doing, despite having the exact same consumable buffs and considerably better gear. Maybe Naxx bosses have a massively higher amount of armor, or maybe damage on here is higher than retail.

[Youfie]

As it was said on some other thread, damage output aren't made out of magic, they're the result of mathematical formulas that can easily be checked one by one.

It's funny to see people saying 'I don't know what, but something is broken', while we have so much tools to analyse raid dps nowadays and to check the formula for every ability, armor & resistances, bosses HP, attack power contribution, glancing blows, spell coefficient etc., and yet nobody seem to know what's wrong.

The only thing broken to my knowledge is "chance on hit" effects that proc off missed / dodged attacks. All the rest of the above is fine.

I mean, if one can objectively see that every part of a whole is working as intended, then the whole isn't broken. There is no magic, just maths.

Most guild didn't use Flasks that early for BWL on retail, and yes consumables and world buffs do help a lot, it was pretty rare back then for most guild to use them. And the 1.12 Talent trees DO help a lot. +5 Weapon Skill for non-human Rogues is just insaaaane, and they didn't have it for a while during Vanilla. Same goes for a lot of classes.

Also keep in mind that raid DPS shown on RaidStats take into account Vael for BWL, and doesn't take out damage from cleaves / AoE, which artificially buff the DPS shown by the website.

[Tinkertown]

First of all, the damage formulas are really easy, straightforward and well known. There is nothing wrong with them on this server. And no, there was no special boss mitigation factor on retail. If there was that would also have been very well known. It's not like something as obvious like that would be missed by everyone. Surely you must realize that?

The explanation really is that the average raider has significantly more knowledge about their class and/or gets better advice on what to wear and how to play. Also the average raider is just a better player than people were back then. This isn't because people are smarter now, the main thing is that people now have upwards of 10 years of MMO experience and they also get pointers from friends and from watching videos and streams. All you need to do is look at all the old vanilla videos that are out there. The level of play in many videos is fantastically bad, even in videos from "server best" guilds. The fact that the average internet connection to the servers is a ton better also helps a lot more than I think many people realize. The 1.12 talents also do help, but they aren't the bulk of the explanation, just icing on the cake.

There are many guilds on this server that would be amongst or even the best in the world if they could time travel. And that really shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

[Youfie]

Just looking at old videos of Naxx (mostly rogue PoV), their abilities are hitting for significantly less than what current rogues are doing, despite having the exact same consumable buffs and considerably better gear. Maybe Naxx bosses have a massively higher amount of armor, or maybe damage on here is higher than retail.

What bosses / Abilities /videos exactly?
Let's take a close look at the Rogue's Talents, Gear and Weapons from your video, and see together if the damage is working as intended .

[WeirdGreenMist]

Damage isn't wrong. People just aren't as dumb and bad as they were 10 years ago. When your average raider played with < 5 fps, no idea how to min-max gear, barely using consumables, and no idea how to do a rotation (Rogues not knowing what Slice and Dice was, etc), yeah, people are going to be doing way more DPS now than they were in 2005.

This is the most ridiculous rhetoric and I hate how much it is being proliferated lately. I raided all through vanilla on a crappy backwater RP server in a low ranked guild full of nobodies and we all had good computers (WoW was not a very demanding game whatsoever even at launch), all used consumables, all studied our classes and abilities and knew optimal rotations and gear. When I see people spout this it's obvious they were not a part of the vanilla community and are regurgitating thoughts they couldn't have formed themselves or if they were a part of vanilla they were really dumb and bad and are projecting their failed past onto the community at large. 10 years ago was not the dark ages, where do you think the foundation of the current exhaustive knowledge-base comes from?

[gotmilk0112]

This is actually a good post.

thanks

Nice confirmation bias, OP.

You ignore everyone saying that the damage formulas are fine, and then thank the one person who says they aren't.

Obvious troll is obvious.