Now THIS is what I remember from the old days.

[Trinat]

Really? I was expecting them to provde either an equal to or greater challenge than hardmodes like ICC10.

LOL...sry but srsly no, every raid released since TBC is harder than vanilla, that's a fact. Not even Saphiron and KT are as hard as most ICC 10 HC Bosses, 4 Horseman coming closest maybe but only because of the nature of the fight being kinda retarded. If you never played vanilla you just have the wrong impression about vanilla raiding

[Foxhound3857]

Really? I was expecting them to provde either an equal to or greater challenge than hardmodes like ICC10.

LOL...sry but srsly no, every raid released since TBC is harder than vanilla, that's a fact. Not even Saphiron and KT are as hard as most ICC 10 HC Bosses, 4 Horseman coming closest maybe but only because of the nature of the fight being kinda retarded. If you never played vanilla you just have the wrong impression about vanilla raiding

Vanilla raiding is for babies compared to WotLK. Got it.

[Botanist]

Really? I was expecting them to provde either an equal to or greater challenge than hardmodes like ICC10.

LOL...sry but srsly no, every raid released since TBC is harder than vanilla, that's a fact. Not even Saphiron and KT are as hard as most ICC 10 HC Bosses, 4 Horseman coming closest maybe but only because of the nature of the fight being kinda retarded. If you never played vanilla you just have the wrong impression about vanilla raiding

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[Amkô]

Vanilla was actually hard 10 years ago, when 98% of the players were just bad, there were no such helpful addons and so on..Off-Warris were playing Arms (not DW) with full T1, because it was an epic set, for example ^^
Players got a lil bit better in BWL I assume, but they were still really bad compared to today.

Compared to a mythic boss from today, it's nothing. But there are still a lot of things better then the current retail servers, so just enjoy it and have fun in your dungeons and raids. Nowadays (retail servers) you just gotta farm LFR and then NHC, HC; Mythic over and over again the same shi.t.

[sownu]

Ok well how do you explain some guilds actually progressing in mc and bwl and many pugs failing to clear mc

Its not THAT easy, its just very easy to get carried in 40man raid since you only need like 20 competent people to do all the heavy lifting.

[Amkô]

The same reason like in retail, when raidgroups cannot clear the NHC-mode. Bad people, less time, ultra-casuals, and so on.

I played WoW since the beginning, raided, pvp'ed, was in Top100 world raids (For top20 too less time, although I was a student), a few times gladiator later in arena, so I think that the Vanilla bosses are the easiest from my point of view. There definitely people saying the opposite, but all of that, including my comment, is a personal opinion --> Vanilla was the coolest, simply because people used to know each other and play with or against them. That was the funniest part in Vanilla, till the whole server transfer, name/race chance, faction change paid idiotic services were announced!
Neither the raids are hard (ok, back then they were really hard, but we were all worse players then now, clicking the main spells, no other keybindings, less addons, no knowledge or youtube guides for every boss..) nor the pvp is hard, but time consuming.

[winfernal]

Really? I was expecting them to provde either an equal to or greater challenge than hardmodes like ICC10.

LOL...sry but srsly no, every raid released since TBC is harder than vanilla, that's a fact. Not even Saphiron and KT are as hard as most ICC 10 HC Bosses, 4 Horseman coming closest maybe but only because of the nature of the fight being kinda retarded. If you never played vanilla you just have the wrong impression about vanilla raiding

Vanilla raiding is for babies compared to WotLK. Got it.

Something like that

[Fuhrern]

If you're expecting a challenge, prepare to be disappointed at endgame.

AQ + Naxx (KT) are the real Challenge

not really dude, you'll be disappointed when the day comes

[Tyidan]

Ill trade mana / threat management, high execution fights, coordination of 39 people, situational awareness, personal class responsibility, assignments, highly tuned bosses and trash packs, actual maths, strategic raid compositions, RNG, limited talent spec, limited class tools, limited loot, unforgiving mechanics, consumables, resistances, and a sense of fucking ACHIEVEMENT ON EVERYTHING ME AND MY GUILD DOES over standing out of visual clusterfucks in homogenized faceroll content. Cleared in weeks by top guilds when this content originally took top guilds literally months (Go look it up) WoD Archimonde took about 2 weeks Rag was about what 3 months?

TL;DR Everything past TBC is a joke. "Hardmodes were Vanilla and TBC tuned versions of fights with mechanic twists"

[Xaeminos]

Vanilla was never hard. Naxx 40 was difficult, but it doesn't touch the difficulty of raiding in retail. What made Vanilla hard was time and logistics.

That being said, the 5-10/15 mans were harder. You couldn't just walk in there in greens and stomp all over stuff - when cc was important. I miss that. I also miss the social aspect. Cross realm and garrisons screwed everything up.