How was Old Naxx40

[Garfunkel]

Again tell me how the FURY progression would speak for the majority of players? It's almost like saying that the old school WoW community was filled with Nihilum/ Drama level players.

You are right in this statement: even MC was difficult for people who had never raided before and no matter the amount of knowledge beforehand and how well they had farmed MC, no guild could clear BWL on their first attempt. I'm fairly certain everyone understands this point.

However, Zach is also right that in that you didn't ask about raids in general but made a very specific question and doubted his earlier claim, which he proved was right. Stop shifting the goal posts while insulting him in turn. You made a stupid post, it happens, we all do.

[Strife]

I'd also like to point out that on a lot of private servers the content is actually more difficult than it was in retail WoW. Take Warsong for example, yes you can use more buffs than back then, and it's entirely possible some of the abilities are scaled a little bit higher. Most of the bosses in Naxx on Warsong literally have three times the HP they did on retail. KT has something like almost 10,000,000, that's almost as much as the Naxx 25 version in Wrath. The original had 3mil HP. Scriptcraft bosses were overtuned, and there is a chance on Nost stuff might be purposely made harder to challenge players.

I'm gonna dig out this post and pull your attention to this page:
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... &realm=All

This is dps rankings on ragnaros, compare the feenix servers to rebirth (or old blizzard screenshots) and see the massive DPS difference. You can do this for all of the bosses on this site. Bottom line is feenix is so messed up that everyone is doing more than double the dps they are supposed to be, so that would explain why they gave the bosses 3x more health (because they're too incompetent to fix anything).

I kind of hope they buff the bosses a bit here too. It's no secret that MC/BWL etc is not challenging content for us in 2015 anymore, combined with the fact that we have 1.12 talents, skill buffs, 10 years knowledge of game mechanics/tactics and low ping/high fps compared to original vanilla. Personally I'd like to experience more than a single day (per raid) worth of progression raiding once again.

People have differing opinions and experience here, but that's no reason for people to flip out into a rage and hurl feces at each other because someone has a different opinion than you do /shock-horror. Would be nice if the forums were actually moderated so we didn't have all the shit-talking keyboard warriors/epic meme trollxd every other thread where people don't agree with each other.

[ironsides]

I'd also like to point out that on a lot of private servers the content is actually more difficult than it was in retail WoW. Take Warsong for example, yes you can use more buffs than back then, and it's entirely possible some of the abilities are scaled a little bit higher. Most of the bosses in Naxx on Warsong literally have three times the HP they did on retail. KT has something like almost 10,000,000, that's almost as much as the Naxx 25 version in Wrath. The original had 3mil HP. Scriptcraft bosses were overtuned, and there is a chance on Nost stuff might be purposely made harder to challenge players.

Im gonna dig out this post and pull your attention to this page:
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... &realm=All

This is dps rankings on ragnaros, compare the feenix servers to rebirth (or old blizzard screenshots) and see the massive DPS difference. You can do this for all of the bosses on this site. Bottom line is feenix is so messed up that everyone is doing more than double the dps they are supposed to be, so that would explain why they gave the bosses 3x more health (because they're too incompetent to fix anything).

I kind of hope they buff the bosses a bit here too. It's no secret that MC/BWL is not challenging content for us in 2015 anymore, combined with the fact that we have 1.12 talents, skill buffs, 10 years knowledge of game mechanics/tactics and low ping/high fps compared to original vanilla. Personally I'd like to experience more than a single day (per raid) worth of progression raiding once again.

People have differing opinions and experience here, but that's no reason for people to flip out into a rage and hurl feces at each other because someone has a different opinion than you do /shock-horror. Would be nice if the forums were actually moderated so we didn't have all the shit-talking keyboard warriors/epic meme trollxd every other thread where people don't agree with each other.

Are you actually comparing Feenix raiders to Rebirth raiders? A realm where the top horde guild actually believes that using a shaman to tank flamegor is a good idea? Where hardly anyone uses consumables on progression?

Rebirth has all the bugs feenix does when it comes to raiders. The difference comes from the playerbase being better and trying harder.

[Terpsichore]

Boss buffs Feenix has are actually a good thing and I hope it happens here as well, just properly fine-tuned.
Many fights will be a complete joke with default values.

[Cataclysm]

Mate do you think back days there was no info?

no, most guilds who went into a newly released instance did not have any info about the end boss or its mechanics.

and ppl dian`t know how to play?

yes im certain people didnt know how to play (in relation to today)

U don`t even need addons to figure out what a boss cand do,u can check logs,check range,check timing,RIFT for example 0 adons and the Raids was hell more hard that Wow Raids will ever be,I had a guild rank3 there and figure out all the things and coordonation with 0 hints and addons,

Ok, if you want to spend hours and hours to "check logs check range check timing", I can't stop you. But I hope you understand that I wont, nor will I need to, because its 10 year old content. Also, threat meter is a huge thing, and it's a bit excessive to go so hard on nostalgia that you refuse to use addons. If thats what you're implying atleast.

Wow was the same,you think u need to study a boss 10 years to be expert? ) U need to get inside,wipe 20 times and u can know exactly what a boss can do and can`t do to your raid

so by this logic, is retail harder? I dont think any of the harder fights since Warlords came out were done in 20 or less wipes. And how about transition faces? Did people get far enough on pre-nerf C'thun, or Kel'thuzad, within 20 wipes, to know what to do next? No.

and how u can change the things,what you don`t understand is next :
1.is all about numbers (gear) if a boss hit u 3k and u have 2k hp is mean u need to get the items what give u a 3.2k hp
2.if a boss radius is 30 and your spell is 30 is mean u need to get in,hit and get out.But if the boss is bugged and radius is 25 u can hit him with your 30 spell range,so basic u don`t need to in/out so yes,is mean a noob can do it also u can have a boss bugged with 25 range and spell bugged too with a 32-35 ) yes things like this exist on most of the servers witch make a fight 100% more easy that it is

I'm going to assume that you've only played on some really bad private servers, like Warsong. And I'm not really sure what fights you are talking about. Only thing similar I've seen myself was Scriptcraft original Magmadar i guess.

So again if the %drop is corect how blizzlike was and the gear-up take time,also the scrips and spell are proper we should not have guilds who farm MC after 30 days
I hope the nods for mining/herbs are corect too,also the respawm time because to max a skill back days was not easy at all expecialy mining

Maxing out gathering professions wasn't hard...

If you actually have some proof to back up any of your weird statements, preferrably the ones regarding PvE content ("Drop rate too high"), would you please post them? I can link you to countless archives with approximate droprates for certain items. So whether you like it or not, getting gear that is adequate to MC, on a private server like this, even with 1.4 loot, isn't rocket science, and doesnt take months.


PS. Item level doesn't matter jack shit in vanilla.

[Aten]

Raiding in original WoW was hard because you WEREN'T able to watch a youtube video telling you exactly what to do for each encounter, you had to discuss it and FIGURE IT OUT yourself. Raiding in original WoW was hard because you DIDN'T HAVE bullshit like decursive, dps meters, threat meters, addons telling you you have aggro, and addons telling you a boss was about to perform his special attack PLAYING the game FOR YOU. You had to be aware of these things YOURSELF. That's why original WoW raiding was "hard".

Of course, ten years later it's going to be easy, but I mean once you'd cleared each boss a few times, it was easy then.

Also, lol @ everyone saying it was hard and a grind fest. Ever tried any of the MMOs before WoW? Now they were a grind fest.

[Imbaslap]

raiding Naxx on dial-up...
nuff said.

[TheLockKing]

Raiding in original WoW was hard because you WEREN'T able to watch a youtube video telling you exactly what to do for each encounter, you had to discuss it and FIGURE IT OUT yourself. Raiding in original WoW was hard because you DIDN'T HAVE bullshit like decursive, dps meters, threat meters, addons telling you you have aggro, and addons telling you a boss was about to perform his special attack PLAYING the game FOR YOU. You had to be aware of these things YOURSELF. That's why original WoW raiding was "hard".

Of course, ten years later it's going to be easy, but I mean once you'd cleared each boss a few times, it was easy then.

Also, lol @ everyone saying it was hard and a grind fest. Ever tried any of the MMOs before WoW? Now they were a grind fest.

MMOs before WoW? There were only a few that I know of. Anarchy, Everquest, Ultima Online and City of Heroes. Ultima had no levels but rather skills (kinda like Runescape later on), Everquest was really only grindy because of a massive lack of quests (Something EQ2 fixed yet is still touted as inferior for doing) but gear wasn't as important in it, never tried Anarchy but I heard it was hell because of random gear bullshit, and City of Heroes wasn't even close to grindy until they introduced Incarnates.

[Aten]

Raiding in original WoW was hard because you WEREN'T able to watch a youtube video telling you exactly what to do for each encounter, you had to discuss it and FIGURE IT OUT yourself. Raiding in original WoW was hard because you DIDN'T HAVE bullshit like decursive, dps meters, threat meters, addons telling you you have aggro, and addons telling you a boss was about to perform his special attack PLAYING the game FOR YOU. You had to be aware of these things YOURSELF. That's why original WoW raiding was "hard".

Of course, ten years later it's going to be easy, but I mean once you'd cleared each boss a few times, it was easy then.

Also, lol @ everyone saying it was hard and a grind fest. Ever tried any of the MMOs before WoW? Now they were a grind fest.

MMOs before WoW? There were only a few that I know of. Anarchy, Everquest, Ultima Online and City of Heroes. Ultima had no levels but rather skills (kinda like Runescape later on), Everquest was really only grindy because of a massive lack of quests (Something EQ2 fixed yet is still touted as inferior for doing) but gear wasn't as important in it, never tried Anarchy but I heard it was hell because of random gear bullshit, and City of Heroes wasn't even close to grindy until they introduced Incarnates.

Nah man.

Everquest, I mean, you had:
-XP loss on death
-You had to recover your corpse naked; if you didn't it simply decayed and was lost
-Corpse recoveries were not easy at the best of times, as instances did not exist and re spawn timers were short
-On that note, you had to compete against the entire server for drops, not just 39 other people
-Ungodly amounts of xp were required to level in EQ, for example 54-55 (a double hell level) took more time in /played than 1-60 in WoW would.
-In PvP, you could loot all the coin the person had on them + 1 item
-The faction grind game in it, lol. Makes WoW's look like a trivial experience
-Quest logs didn't exist, you had to read the text and write it down
-No voice chat
-No maps
-Mobs never stopped chasing you, and unless you had a run speed buff, they were as or faster than you
-Gear was insanely important, mostly for melee though
-There were about 3 classes that could solo semi-efficiently, everyone else was dead meet solo

That's off the top of my head.

Ultima Online, I barely played but i remember it was full PvP and when you died all your items dropped. Ie, if you died you basically had to start the game over.

Dark Age of Camelot was a bit less worse for EQ in terms of the PvE grind, but it had the most in depth, and best PvP system in an MMO.

[Zach]

Raiding in original WoW was hard because you DIDN'T HAVE bullshit like decursive, dps meters, threat meters, addons telling you you have aggro, and addons telling you a boss was about to perform his special attack PLAYING the game FOR YOU.

Literally all of those addons existed.