Lootcouncil in a nutshell

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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by Setup » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:00 am

Another great example: guild leader/officers leveling alts and you help him to level the alts.


I feel like this thread should just become a series of loot council horror stories.

I was in <Convulsion> when it was the top American horde guild on Feenix. I was a PVP-first player, so even though I was one of the ~8 people in the guild that wasn't totally inept, I'd routinely pass on PVE upgrades because I didn't give a care about my PVE DPS. Above all, I knew and feared taking PVE upgrades would set me back towards getting the upgrades I did want, so I passed on more PVE upgrades than you can shake a stick at.

I passed on the 2.5 hat for 12+ weeks, letting the token rot or go to alts, while waiting for the tier 3 hat token to drop. In a DKP system I'd have taken the 2.5 hat for minimum bid and the guild would be better off for it, but you can't measure the goodwill of a loot council, so I wasn't going to risk losing out on an item I wanted for one I didn't care about.

I passed on the Patchwerk wand several times because it had +hit I didn't care about.

I passed on the C'thun ring week after week. (+hit, ew)

I passed on the Brimstone staff several times in favor of my AQ20 dagger.

I was the person you wanted geared out, competent with 100% raid attendance, and yet I wasn't taking any loot because it would affect my ability to get the crit-oriented items I wanted. It was unfair to me, and it was a drag on the guild, but it was the my only means of gearing how I wanted to gear, and being certain I got what I wanted.

Another element overlooked by many people is that the loot council needs a complete understanding of the game to be able to competently distribute loot. That's no small task. One of our druids, an officer and great player, was denied the ability to loot the C'thun mace "because druids should use staves." All it takes is two or three of these morons in your LC and you've got a serious problem.

As a warlock, I had to bitch and moan to the point of losing friends about getting access to crit gear because half the server incorrectly believed that hit was far-and-away more valuable than crit for warlocks. (Not only was it untrue, it meant I was in principle not allowed to get the items I was playing the game to get.) After considerable bitching, and waiting in line behind nearly every shitter mage in the guild, they capitulated.

The guild didn't collapse, but we did lose people over stupid loot decisions. One of our hunters deleted their character after he believed the Noth axe was given to the wrong person. Officers would be inured with messages every week by someone who didn't like this decision or that decision. For the emotional well-being of your raid, perceptions of fairness are just as important as fairness itself.

For a lot of classes and players, these kinds of concerns don't exist. Many classes may have extremely linear ways of gearing their character. This is just a taste of the kind of thing that goes on behind the scenes in a successful LC guild, whether the members are oblivious to it or not.
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by AntonTheFiremind » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:41 am

We have hidden DKP auction in Winter Chill guild. (YES, our auctioneer is rare person who does his work honestly, it's necessary requirement.) Though LC (non corrupted) is more progress oriented, we haven't any dramas, gquits, and spam to officers about unfair desicions. And still our progress is very solid.
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by rinaun » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:23 am

Setup wrote:
Another great example: guild leader/officers leveling alts and you help him to level the alts.


I feel like this thread should just become a series of loot council horror stories.

.....................

For a lot of classes and players, these kinds of concerns don't exist. Many classes may have extremely linear ways of gearing their character. This is just a taste of the kind of thing that goes on behind the scenes in a successful LC guild, whether the members are oblivious to it or not.



A++ well-written. This type of shit is exactly why I'd never play an MMO in a loot council again. Maybe I'm just chivalrous but as I mentioned before, I've actually REMOVED myself from those type of roles (loot council member) because I don't think being on the winning side of the equation is cool. Also I love how people call out "randoms who don't like loot council" and call them bad in a fucking decade-old video game. My guild had some of the worst players and they still downed rag within 2-3 weeks of starting MC; this game isn't hard, guys. Especially not on this server with all the bugs and improper balancing.

As a side-note, it's pretty crazy how addicting vanilla wow is. I might even still be playing if it wasn't for the servers for US-players being unplayable in anything but MC/dungeons. I am however definitely content with my choice after revisiting the toxic community this server attracts.
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by Azi » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:02 am

What you all describe is shit guilds, not LC flaws. Btw, would anyone bother to enlighten how "OMG WTF IT'S A 10 Y OLD GAME NOOBS" is an argument?
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by Bioness » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:27 pm

Azi wrote:What you all describe is shit guilds, not LC flaws. Btw, would anyone bother to enlighten how "OMG WTF IT'S A 10 Y OLD GAME NOOBS" is an argument?


It isn't an argument, unless you are talking about player knowledge of the game itself.
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by Badtank » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:16 pm

Robotron wrote:I like how the complainers are just so many randoms who probably have no idea what being in a high level guild is like complain about the loot distribution in guilds they don't even belong to and thus are unaffected by it (save for getting smeared in PVP).



Loot council is garbage. It's the least fair loot system. People are always going to be biased as fuck that's how we are. People trying to tell you that their loot council works, that their loot council is different is no different then fucking abusive alcoholic telling you to take him back he will be different this time.
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by Talzia » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:45 am

Some people don't feel any system is fair if they're not on the winning side of loot when they want to be, DKP, LC, even just rolls or otherwise - and that is where most of the general complaining comes from.

The rest is from people who experienced a poorly implemented loot system. Any MMO veteran has experienced shitty loot council and shitty DKP. It's about who is running it.

I absolutely refuse to believe that it's human nature to be shitty and dishonest to each other.
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by Robotron » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:52 am

Badtank wrote:
Robotron wrote:I like how the complainers are just so many randoms who probably have no idea what being in a high level guild is like complain about the loot distribution in guilds they don't even belong to and thus are unaffected by it (save for getting smeared in PVP).



Loot council is garbage. It's the least fair loot system. People are always going to be biased as fuck that's how we are. People trying to tell you that their loot council works, that their loot council is different is no different then fucking abusive alcoholic telling you to take him back he will be different this time.

It's not like virtually all the best guilds in the world use loot council or anything.
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by Datruth » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:29 am

Corrupt shit councils aside, the only people who disagrees with loot council is either self-entitled loot whores who just wants to look "cool" in the major cities or people who are just plain bad.

Putting the item where it benefits the raid most>communism. Stacking 8/8 of certain sets on one person first is just superior and countless other examples.
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Re: Lootcouncil in a nutshell

by Drain » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:03 am

After being screwed by Clan Thunder, which was the first time I ever used Loot Council in a game; I realized what a terrible system this really is, which I'll never be foolish enough to run under ever again. Basically, it's a way for the leader/officers to get all their stuff first, fuck everyone else. If you're not in the main group, you're expendable and won't get anything before those people. There's nothing fair about it. Doesn't matter if you raid full MC 10 times, you could easily have squat to show for it while others get item after item after item every run just because they are the officers or the officer's best buddy IRL. Then when you're too far behind on gear to compete anymore, you're then accused to being carried(which you are being carried at that point) and deemed disposable, and even less likely to have gear handed to you as opposed to the top dps guys which have been blessed with all the purples. After they gear up their favorites first, they will then start gearing up the top dps next, which is the same group of people since they're now ahead on gear and max potential dps.

The bottom line is that unless you get on your hands and knees and give succulent BJs(which I wouldn't do, eat a dick Mcsheezy), or are best friends with the people in charge; you're fucked. It's nothing more than an a gimmick tool which enables the people in charge to have complete control to hand themselves all the goodies first.

A better system is DKP, which these kind of guilds won't use because it means they'd actually have to share. It ensures that that everyone will start getting items eventually, and that they will eventually be evenly distributed between everyone that works for it. DKP is much more of a fair system, where Loot Council is 2 people working the same job, but 1 being paid 4x as much because he's friends with the CEO.
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