Are all specs valid?

[Grava]

I've been long dreaming about a modified vanilla WoW.

Just some minor tweaks, there are too many unused talents.

Sounds like you need to create your own. I'll admit, I'd play it.

Honestly, I'd completely redesign the classes, though. Brand new abilities.

[Magnifican]

I've been long dreaming about a modified vanilla WoW.

Just some minor tweaks, there are too many unused talents.

Sounds like you need to create your own. I'll admit, I'd play it.

Honestly, I'd completely redesign the classes, though. Brand new abilities.

From what I understand that's not even possible. The tooltips are hardcoded and so is the talent trees. You can change stats on talents I believe but it gets very difficult with talents that got more then 1 point in it, which is like all of them. I always wanted to player Vanilla wow with viable tankadins and rets etc, but I doubt that will ever happen.
Yes, its POSSIBLE to go prot pally for example and still play the game. But gearing is a pain, you go oom in long fights so you gotta get special gear and you end up with much less health than warriors, and you simply cant manage raidbosses and have no taunt (although you can do really well with adds). At the end of the day, you are just putting the raid at a disadvantage and everyone gotta adapt to you, holding their dps etc because you cant hold threat. It's a selfish move to insist on playing prot pally in vanilla, and most likely you wont get invited to raids at all. This is sucha shame for me since I like vanilla the most and I also like prot pally the most.
Correct me if im wrong here but, I think that in order to balance classes in the "easiest" way possible, Nostalrius would make changes to the gear stats to make specs viable when wearing them. But this would never happen and so many people would be against it because they want 100% blizzlike. Some even wanna go back to even more unbalanced earlier stages of the talent trees because its more "true to vanilla". Silly

[Putni]

This is why I dislike Vanilla, because all specs should be valid, a Prot Paladin should be as much as requested as a protection warrior is in raids.

Like others said, then why are you here?

You are not starting the game back in 2004 and wondering after hours and hours spent into developing a character why you just can't play what you want. Complaints were valid back then.

That was ELEVEN years ago. Vanilla was/is what it was/is. Deal with it, or find another server.

I was among the lucky who rolled a Warrior and wanted to tank because that felt like "heroism" for me. Turned out it actually worked. I remember people complaining why they can't do the same with a Paladin, Blizzard addressed this issue overtime, but not straigth away. I felt for them, because I found their complaints valid.

But your complaint is not valid. You know what this is all about, and the content won't be changed just so you can feel comfortable about yourself.

[Magnifican]

This is why I dislike Vanilla, because all specs should be valid, a Prot Paladin should be as much as requested as a protection warrior is in raids.

Like others said, then why are you here?

You are not starting the game back in 2004 and wondering after hours and hours spent into developing a character why you just can't play what you want. Complaints were valid back then.

That was ELEVEN years ago. Vanilla was/is what it was/is. Deal with it, or find another server.

I was among the lucky who rolled a Warrior and wanted to tank because that felt like "heroism" for me. Turned out it actually worked. I remember people complaining why they can't do the same with a Paladin, Blizzard addressed this issue overtime, but not straigth away. I felt for them, because I found their complaints valid.

But your complaint is not valid. You know what this is all about, and the content won't be changed just so you can feel comfortable about yourself.

But IF it were possible to make the changes blizzard never did, for the better of the game and balance (because we know better, obviously). Wouldnt it make sense to discuss how to improve upon it? Vanilla content is amazing. No flying mounts. Things were hard (compared to now), and it required effort, and the list goes on as to why I personally love vanilla. But the one huge drawback to the glory days has always been the utterly useless and idiotic talent trees for some classes/specs. Class unbalances overall was terrible and I think most people agree. If this could be modified, it really deserves to be put out there as an option. Keep everything else "blizzlike", like x1 gold and exp gains etc. Thats not a problem at all.

The thing is that what this does in actuality is limiting the game. People will get hated for picking a tree that is right there but they missed the fact its utterly useless. New people might go prot pally and not get invited to a raids and rediculed. How is that benefitting for anyone? It just takes up space that could be used for something better. The 8 slot debuff limit is another example of terrible design. It made it so many Arms warriors didnt get invited to raids if they speccs into Deep wounds for example. There were so many bad things going on with the class mechanics and balance that holding on to that because its "blizzlike" is just silly imo. A modified Vanilla in regards to class-balance would be the ultimate experience for me

[Grava]

But IF it were possible to make the changes blizzard never did, for the better of the game and balance (because we know better, obviously). Wouldnt it make sense to discuss how to improve upon it? Vanilla content is amazing. No flying mounts. Things were hard (compared to now), and it required effort, and the list goes on as to why I personally love vanilla. But the one huge drawback to the glory days has always been the utterly useless and idiotic talent trees for some classes/specs. Class unbalances overall was terrible and I think most people agree. If this could be modified, it really deserves to be put out there as an option. Keep everything else "blizzlike", like x1 gold and exp gains etc. Thats not a problem at all.

The thing is that what this does in actuality is limiting the game. People will get hated for picking a tree that is right there but they missed the fact its utterly useless. New people might go prot pally and not get invited to a raids and rediculed. How is that benefitting for anyone? It just takes up space that could be used for something better. The 8 slot debuff limit is another example of terrible design. It made it so many Arms warriors didnt get invited to raids if they speccs into Deep wounds for example. There were so many bad things going on with the class mechanics and balance that holding on to that because its "blizzlike" is just silly imo. A modified Vanilla in regards to class-balance would be the ultimate experience for me

I agree with you on this. However, Nost is not that server. Not now. Perhaps in a few years. Perhaps then the devs would take it upon themselves to fix talents and skills and yet remain true to the content, just balance the classes better. And I agree, that would be awesome to see.

[sloasdaylight]

Simply put, no. It's even worse with an 8 debuff limit, because you take Shadow Priests out of the equation as well, so you have even less diversity in your raids.

[Magnifican]

Simply put, no. It's even worse with an 8 debuff limit, because you take Shadow Priests out of the equation as well, so you have even less diversity in your raids.

And this is why "true blizzlike" is a bad thing imo. Sometimes it just hurts the game because of nostalgia that wasnt that good to begin with. Keep the core of vanilla intact but change the things that isnt of benefit to Anyone. Like 8 debuff limit is one such thing. Arms warrior not getting into raids because they spec deep wounds did happen alot, I mean seriously how bad is that!? Those precious 8 debuffs needed to go elsewere so respec of gtfo.

[hasseoliver]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_YEl0Yp8I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovC3fkojlE

I'd say prot pally is pretty viable, (he got more videos and there's a few very good prot pally videos, Cysthen for example). And I actually played some prot pally myself, with pre-raid BiS gear I was able to do some MC and ZG but quit due to lack off time.
But is prot pally viable at the current patch off the game? No, no way some1 will be able to get proper gear for a prot pally in the current state. And yeah sure you'll to get very specific gear, but then again that shouldn't be too big off a problem since you're going to be a very dedicated player anyway

Good luck everyone and bash on me all you want but it's very much viable.

[bellerophon]

I don't even think the notion of a "validity of a spec" is coherent. You choose how to spend 51 talent points, not choose 1 out of 3 "specs." Strictly speaking you can only really talk bout the utility of a specific talent build with 51 points specified. A "resto spec," for instance, is not automatically more "valid" than a "feral spec." Of course, optimal builds for pve or pvp or whatever specified purpose will take specific forms and have more talent points spent in one of the three trees than in others. But there is no more reason to expect that any spec to be good for raid or pvp than to expect that every single talent to be good for raid or pvp. If you choose 51 points at random it's not going to be as good as choosing them carefully.

[sloasdaylight]

I don't even think the notion of a "validity of a spec" is coherent. You choose how to spend 51 talent points, not choose 1 out of 3 "specs." Strictly speaking you can only really talk bout the utility of a specific talent build with 51 points specified. A "resto spec," for instance, is not automatically more "valid" than a "feral spec." Of course, optimal builds for pve or pvp or whatever specified purpose will take specific forms and have more talent points spent in one of the three trees than in others. But there is no more reason to expect that any spec to be good for raid or pvp than to expect that every single talent to be good for raid or pvp. If you choose 51 points at random it's not going to be as good as choosing them carefully.

I've got a couple hairs on my head that could use splitting while you're at it.

The way vanilla trees and abilities are set up, it's pretty clear that there are some that are just better for endgame raiding/PvP than others. Boomkins will not see as many spots in raids as resto druids, simply because of how their abilities coincide with their specs. Prot pallies are the same way, as are enh shaman. Yes, they all have their uses and with the proper player behind the keyboard, all the specs can be at least decent in most contexts, however for the majority of players, there are inherent flaws in the class design of Vanilla that will preclude some classes from seeing more than a modicum of success at high levels of game play if they're specced out of a particular tree or two - ergo, they're not a valid choice for late game raiding/PvP.