"Adds X <elemental> damage to your melee attacks."

[Netherfrost]

So a Rogue is going to cover himself in spell damage, gutting almost all the damage from his abilities, just so a proc that doesn't always occur, can do more damage? I never knew players did this, lol. I'd also be interested to know what kind of raid would let Rogues take caster gear away from everyone else in the raid. There will never be a situation where a caster item drops, and out of 40 people, 0 want the item, most of which are casters or healers that use caster stats.

Theres more to it than most would guess. First of all, a lot spell dmg gear can be gained on players' own hand, second of all, in the late game of vanilla theyre strong enough to destroy the purpose of casters for 90% of encounters

IIRC this is a boot up of a MaNGOS test server: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZC5YeqkNxA
(Not proof of it working in vanilla, but...) Pretty much agree with most of everything being said. Just something I thought should have been mentioned since it seemed no one brought it up.

This wasn't ment as a source for scaling, I thought that was obvious. This is a rough estimation of the effect of a fire rogue with end game SP gear and instant attack scaling (42.8%) Since its either that or 0%, arguing over custom % is pointless since you cant make a good estimation...You shouldnt even bother trying to make an estimation if you arent sure whether it scaled or not in the first place, i.e. this shouldn't be an issue unless someone brings up a source for 1.12 scaling. My intend is just to make sure that the server isnt booted with false scaling.

EDIT:

Feenix never had elemental damage working ever.

Funny to see how many who just says whatever.
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... t=26013908 - Thats neat DPS for a rogue (the mage had ignite tick)
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... ayer=Evans Its funny, why would he gather all that gear if it wasnt for a fire rogue? (see latest items)

And then theres ofc this http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/9044 ... -patch-10/
"The following spells and items have their spell data coefficients adjusted: Arcane Explosion, Fiery Blaze Enchantment, Blazefury Medallion, Fiery Retributer, Fiery Plate Gauntlets, Storm Gauntlets, Arcanite Champion, Enchant Weapon - Crusader, Shard of the Fallen Star"

[Oratai]

So a Rogue is going to cover himself in spell damage, gutting almost all the damage from his abilities, just so a proc that doesn't always occur, can do more damage? I never knew players did this, lol. I'd also be interested to know what kind of raid would let Rogues take caster gear away from everyone else in the raid. There will never be a situation where a caster item drops, and out of 40 people, 0 want the item, most of which are casters or healers that use caster stats.

Theres more to it than most would guess. First of all, a lot spell dmg gear can be gained on players' own hand, second of all, in the late game of vanilla theyre strong enough to destroy the purpose of casters for 90% of encounters

IIRC this is a boot up of a MaNGOS test server: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZC5YeqkNxA
(Not proof of it working in vanilla, but...) Pretty much agree with most of everything being said. Just something I thought should have been mentioned since it seemed no one brought it up.

This wasn't ment as a source for scaling, I thought that was obvious. This is a rough estimation of the effect of a fire rogue with end game SP gear and instant attack scaling (42.8%) Since its either that or 0%, arguing over custom % is pointless since you cant make a good estimation...You shouldnt even bother trying to make an estimation if you arent sure whether it scaled or not in the first place, i.e. this shouldn't be an issue unless someone brings up a source for 1.12 scaling. My intend is just to make sure that the server isnt booted with false scaling.

EDIT:

Feenix never had elemental damage working ever.

Funny to see how many who just says whatever.
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... t=26013908 - Thats neat DPS for a rogue (the mage had ignite tick)
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... ayer=Evans Its funny, why would he gather all that gear if it wasnt for a fire rogue? (see latest items)

And then theres ofc this http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/9044 ... -patch-10/
"The following spells and items have their spell data coefficients adjusted: Arcane Explosion, Fiery Blaze Enchantment, Blazefury Medallion, Fiery Retributer, Fiery Plate Gauntlets, Storm Gauntlets, Arcanite Champion, Enchant Weapon - Crusader, Shard of the Fallen Star"

Good day. And how about the feral druids which can be capable in dps (have 1.0 second attack speed). We have no pve item sets (exclude aq20 one). The spell scale could raise our dps and worth it to have a strong argument to be in a raid. I dont have a problem being in but i want to compete the other melee in DD and dps. For example my char on Feenix.





And here is an evidence that the items with elemental damage had spell scale in retail. The evidence made by Theloreas (mane respects for him) : *When in doubt, go straight to the source and so the other day I logged into my Battle.net account and submitted a GM ticket on the official World of Warcraft website - lo and behold I received an answer this morning - and while it doesn't provide 100% clarification on coefficients, it does at least prove without a shadow of a doubt, that the items did in fact scale with spell dmg....*

read the source below

https://github.com/FeenixServerProject/ ... t-52434151

[Theloras]

So a Rogue is going to cover himself in spell damage, gutting almost all the damage from his abilities, just so a proc that doesn't always occur, can do more damage? I never knew players did this, lol. I'd also be interested to know what kind of raid would let Rogues take caster gear away from everyone else in the raid. There will never be a situation where a caster item drops, and out of 40 people, 0 want the item, most of which are casters or healers that use caster stats.

Theres more to it than most would guess. First of all, a lot spell dmg gear can be gained on players' own hand, second of all, in the late game of vanilla theyre strong enough to destroy the purpose of casters for 90% of encounters

IIRC this is a boot up of a MaNGOS test server: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZC5YeqkNxA
(Not proof of it working in vanilla, but...) Pretty much agree with most of everything being said. Just something I thought should have been mentioned since it seemed no one brought it up.

This wasn't ment as a source for scaling, I thought that was obvious. This is a rough estimation of the effect of a fire rogue with end game SP gear and instant attack scaling (42.8%) Since its either that or 0%, arguing over custom % is pointless since you cant make a good estimation...You shouldnt even bother trying to make an estimation if you arent sure whether it scaled or not in the first place, i.e. this shouldn't be an issue unless someone brings up a source for 1.12 scaling. My intend is just to make sure that the server isnt booted with false scaling.

EDIT:

Feenix never had elemental damage working ever.

Funny to see how many who just says whatever.
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... t=26013908 - Thats neat DPS for a rogue (the mage had ignite tick)
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... ayer=Evans Its funny, why would he gather all that gear if it wasnt for a fire rogue? (see latest items)

And then theres ofc this http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/9044 ... -patch-10/
"The following spells and items have their spell data coefficients adjusted: Arcane Explosion, Fiery Blaze Enchantment, Blazefury Medallion, Fiery Retributer, Fiery Plate Gauntlets, Storm Gauntlets, Arcanite Champion, Enchant Weapon - Crusader, Shard of the Fallen Star"

Good day. And how about the feral druids which can be capable in dps (have 1.0 second attack speed). We have no pve item sets (exclude aq20 one). The spell scale could raise our dps and worth it to have a strong argument to be in a raid. I dont have a problem being in but i want to compete the other melee in DD and dps. For example my char on Feenix.





And here is an evidence that the items with elemental damage had spell scale in retail. The evidence made by Theloreas (mane respects for him) : *When in doubt, go straight to the source and so the other day I logged into my Battle.net account and submitted a GM ticket on the official World of Warcraft website - lo and behold I received an answer this morning - and while it doesn't provide 100% clarification on coefficients, it does at least prove without a shadow of a doubt, that the items did in fact scale with spell dmg....*

read the source below

https://github.com/FeenixServerProject/ ... t-52434151

This person may be on to something here...

[easygoes]

I actually remember having a couple of items which I tested on my paladin. Granted, it was in later patches (1.7+) but I distinctly remember that items which procced every hit did not have any scaling. However, items which had % proc rates, such as Skullflame Shield, had a 100% coefficient with the life drain and a normal coefficient with the flamestrike.

I realize this is just a personal testimony, but I think it's just as legitimate as using Wowhead comments as "proof." While bugs like this may have existed at one point in time, Blizzard was very good about handling exploits like these very quickly. I'm sorry, but you're not original, people experimented with alternative playstyles in vanilla all the time. I dare anyone to go into archive websites and find forum outcry about fire rogues, fire warriors or anything of the like. You won't, because if it did exist... it was nerfed.

People who make these arguments are the same people who used Ironfoe's 20% proc rate and Hand of Justice's increased proc rate on Feenix and claimed it was "Blizzlike." I believe this server's staff will do the right thing and keep these items in check unless definitive answers are found. These power items were a crux of Feenix and created issues for literally everybody except the people using these items.

[Kainnee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDi_g4XDwBU

Some stuff scaled with spellpower in vanilla, but it was less than you'd think. There is a LOT of misinformation about this out there.

[Oratai]

This person may be on to something here...

Hello! Can you copy in here the official Blizzard GM ticket you wrote them?

[Tyraeus]

I already contributed at length to the Feenix github thread at the time, so quoting myself here:

Why would someone make a comment on wowhead saying that the item used to scale with SP but doesn't anymore (or similar comments) if it never did though? And it's not just one comment, it's a repeating theme across several items. Given occam's razor it's more likely that the items did scale, than 3+ separate individuals years apart in different patches all went to the trouble of posting incorrect comments about scaling that was never there.

Also, think of this from a design POV. Would you design these items with such pitiful elemental +dmg bonuses if you didn't intend them to be increased by spell power? What would be the point? You'd put +20dmg on them (similar to the paladin PVP gloves) and make it non-scalable. +2, +3 damage is nothing on its own, especially in the case of Blazefury which is relatively hard to get.

I realise that people are already panicking about this because the way the items were on Feenix was ridiculous, however I still maintain that if you're going to remove the scaling completely then this is non-Blizzlike, as it's pretty obvious that they did scale in Vanilla and were later changed to prevent things getting out of control. They were essentially implemented wrongly. Leaving them as-is with 43% Blizzlike coefficient is unacceptable because lol fire rogues, so we must change them for the good of the game. If we're going to be non-Blizzlike, then one decision is as good as another, and for that reason I would love to see these items simply implemented with a lower coefficient. They're pretty obviously meant to be used by hybrid DPS to bring their numbers up a little bit, and really after so many years I don't think there's anything wrong with people going back to Vanilla with new eyes and trying new things. It's more interesting and should be supported.

[Kainnee]

I already contributed at length to the Feenix github thread at the time, so quoting myself here:

Why would someone make a comment on wowhead saying that the item used to scale with SP but doesn't anymore (or similar comments) if it never did though? And it's not just one comment, it's a repeating theme across several items. Given occam's razor it's more likely that the items did scale, than 3+ separate individuals years apart in different patches all went to the trouble of posting incorrect comments about scaling that was never there.

Also, think of this from a design POV. Would you design these items with such pitiful elemental +dmg bonuses if you didn't intend them to be increased by spell power? What would be the point? You'd put +20dmg on them (similar to the paladin PVP gloves) and make it non-scalable. +2, +3 damage is nothing on its own, especially in the case of Blazefury which is relatively hard to get.

I realise that people are already panicking about this because the way the items were on Feenix was ridiculous, however I still maintain that if you're going to remove the scaling completely then this is non-Blizzlike, as it's pretty obvious that they did scale in Vanilla and were later changed to prevent things getting out of control. They were essentially implemented wrongly. Leaving them as-is with 43% Blizzlike coefficient is unacceptable because lol fire rogues, so we must change them for the good of the game. If we're going to be non-Blizzlike, then one decision is as good as another, and for that reason I would love to see these items simply implemented with a lower coefficient. They're pretty obviously meant to be used by hybrid DPS to bring their numbers up a little bit, and really after so many years I don't think there's anything wrong with people going back to Vanilla with new eyes and trying new things. It's more interesting and should be supported.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDi_g4XDwBU

I have no doubts that the other items with +elemental damage did not scale as well.

[ceoddyn]

Toward the end of the github thread someone claims that the +elemental damage are supposed to scale with spell damage but not stack with each other. This is obviously incorrect from the large number of builds of different classes that stack damage procs in different ways none of which cancel each other.

I wouldn't mind the spell damage coefficient being lowered to be "reasonable" but then it doesnt matter either way. Off specs that are severely outperformed wont benefit well from an intentionally insignificant boost to damage.

[Theloras]

This person may be on to something here...

Hello! Can you copy in here the official Blizzard GM ticket you wrote them?

I'm gonna stay out of the debate this time - anything and everything that needs to be discussed/looked at is on the github link.