Are all specs valid?

[bellerophon]

I don't even think the notion of a "validity of a spec" is coherent. You choose how to spend 51 talent points, not choose 1 out of 3 "specs." Strictly speaking you can only really talk bout the utility of a specific talent build with 51 points specified. A "resto spec," for instance, is not automatically more "valid" than a "feral spec." Of course, optimal builds for pve or pvp or whatever specified purpose will take specific forms and have more talent points spent in one of the three trees than in others. But there is no more reason to expect that any spec to be good for raid or pvp than to expect that every single talent to be good for raid or pvp. If you choose 51 points at random it's not going to be as good as choosing them carefully.

I've got a couple hairs on my head that could use splitting while you're at it.

The way vanilla trees and abilities are set up, it's pretty clear that there are some that are just better for endgame raiding/PvP than others. Boomkins will not see as many spots in raids as resto druids, simply because of how their abilities coincide with their specs. Prot pallies are the same way, as are enh shaman. Yes, they all have their uses and with the proper player behind the keyboard, all the specs can be at least decent in most contexts, however for the majority of players, there are inherent flaws in the class design of Vanilla that will preclude some classes from seeing more than a modicum of success at high levels of game play if they're specced out of a particular tree or two - ergo, they're not a valid choice for late game raiding/PvP.

I'm saying it's not an inherent flaw. Why should Boomkins get as many raid spots as resto druids?

The way vanilla trees and abilities are set up, it's pretty clear that even in resto tree some talents are just better for endgame raiding/PvP than others. If you want all specs to be equal, why not make all individual talents equal as well, so that you can just choose whatever and do fine?

I just don't see any fundamental difference between wanting to raid as ret or feral or whatever and wanting to raid as a warlock using Searing Pain rather than Shadowbolt. It's not to say that these people have unreasonable desires; it's entirely understandable that they'd want to something like that. But if the game mechanics doesn't encourage it, it's not a flaw in the game.

[Shegzon]

Just play what you want to play. Let's say you're a paladin and you don't want to heal... Then don't! It's a game, it's meant to have fun, if you're not having fun there's a problem, and chances are you'll get burnt out and stop playing.

[sloasdaylight]

I'm saying it's not an inherent flaw. Why should Boomkins get as many raid spots as resto druids?

The way vanilla trees and abilities are set up, it's pretty clear that even in resto tree some talents are just better for endgame raiding/PvP than others. If you want all specs to be equal, why not make all individual talents equal as well, so that you can just choose whatever and do fine?

I just don't see any fundamental difference between wanting to raid as ret or feral or whatever and wanting to raid as a warlock using Searing Pain rather than Shadowbolt. It's not to say that these people have unreasonable desires; it's entirely understandable that they'd want to something like that. But if the game mechanics doesn't encourage it, it's not a flaw in the game.

I'd say that if the game mechanics are changed specifically to address an issue, then its pretty clear they were flawed. You're arguing that blizzard specifically designed 6+ talent trees to be useless in the core of their game, because...reasons?

To your searing pain analogy, the fundamental difference is in playstyle. A warlock spamming searing pain is still fulfilling the only role that class is capable of, thanks to its design and talents - ranged magic damage dealer. That's fundamentally different from an enh shaman, which is obviously supposed to be a melee dps, or a prot pally, which is supposed to be a tank. Instead, both of these classes are effectively shoehorned into a healing role at endgame, wasting the majority of the talent point in those respective trees, and causing the player to play a completely different type of class.

You can call that whatever you want, but one would have to perform some impressive mental gymnastics to call it solid game design.

[eotrampage]

People also seem to forget some changes were made because players were begging for it.
Im the first one to say WoW became very bad and worse with each expansion but not all changes are bad.

[ocbdare]

If someone is telling you that all specs are viable when you hit max level they are blatantly lying to you. Vanilla has tons of specs which are useless, there is poor itemisation. Vanilla did a lot of things well but class balance was certainly not one of them.

E.g. if you want to be a tank in raiding, don't ever think about rolling a paladin/druid. Just don't. People will tell you bullshit about how they may be viable if you have the best gear and you're great, no they are not. Warriors are the only option.

If you think that you are going to roll a hybrid class and you're going to dps (e.g. druid, shaman, priest, paladin), just don't roll them. You are going to be useless to the raid, you will deal a fraction of what the "real" dps classes do and the only reason why a raid may take ONE of your kind is because of some potentially marginally useful thing (e.g. feral aura but that's limited to one party too).

There are many specs in vanilla which are useless and a lot of classes have only one viable spec. Except the retarded warriors. You know why everyone wants to roll a warrior right? Because they know the are the only tank (so always needed) and at around AQ they become one of the best dps classes and crazy sick in PvP. If there is a hybrid class in vanilla WoW, it's warriors.

[NicolasMage]

So there was this thing about Vanilla like for example all warriors should be only tanks and priests only healers and paladins couldn't heal and druids couldn't tank. Now that 10 years have passed since vanilla started, we the players having learned the classes inside out, can we now actually play all classes/specs in vanilla?

Warriors in decent gear were good DPS, Shadowpriests are viable as PvP and Discipline Priests are pretty good tank healers. A raid can use one Shadowpriest, too, for the locks.

Paladins could only heal and do shitloads of support on the raid, and Druids can offtank in 20 mans but yeah, not much beyond that.

You can play whatever you want but don't expect any raiding guild to just bend over and adapt to your ideas. A Warrior tank is almost always better to have in a raid than a Protection Paladin or a Feral Druid (with very few exceptions), Priests are the best healers when it comes to efficient healing, Shamans are best for melee healing and Druids are the best raid healers after AQ hits (with all the Healing Touch talents and items casting time decreases so much, they are best at keeping general DPS and other healers topped).

Retribution Paladins are generally subpar DPS compared to the normal DPS classes, even if we know of a few exceptions who could get the gear to DPS kind of normally.

Sorry, Vanilla still clusters you into roles, and you either get used to it, or you will be disappointed.

This is why I dislike Vanilla, because all specs should be valid, a Prot Paladin should be as much as requested as a protection warrior is in raids.

The opposite of that reason is why a lot of people hate Mop-WOD. Being able to do whatever the fuck you want in what ever spec you want makes classes all feel the same.

[eotrampage]

All valid doesnt mean everybody can do everything in every role dude stop exxagarating!

Once all the nostalgia has died down people will actually take a look at "what are we actually playing"
Vanilla WoW was never good, get that out of your heads! It was a good place to start and blizz took it in the wrong direction making it suck. But without ANY changes or additions vanilla WoW is NOT a good game but just another one of those average mmorpgs.

[TheLockKing]

All valid doesnt mean everybody can do everything in every role dude stop exxagarating!

Once all the nostalgia has died down people will actually take a look at "what are we actually playing"
Vanilla WoW was never good, get that out of your heads! It was a good place to start and blizz took it in the wrong direction making it suck. But without ANY changes or additions vanilla WoW is NOT a good game but just another one of those average mmorpgs.

Translated:

"I suck."

[eotrampage]

All valid doesnt mean everybody can do everything in every role dude stop exxagarating!

Once all the nostalgia has died down people will actually take a look at "what are we actually playing"
Vanilla WoW was never good, get that out of your heads! It was a good place to start and blizz took it in the wrong direction making it suck. But without ANY changes or additions vanilla WoW is NOT a good game but just another one of those average mmorpgs.

Translated:

"I suck."

Its impossible to suck in a game as easy as this, fail troll. In fact none of the changes I would like to see would change anything in "difficulty". But seriously if you think people can be bad at WoW you must be either 12 years old or retarded as fuck...

[TheLockKing]

All valid doesnt mean everybody can do everything in every role dude stop exxagarating!

Once all the nostalgia has died down people will actually take a look at "what are we actually playing"
Vanilla WoW was never good, get that out of your heads! It was a good place to start and blizz took it in the wrong direction making it suck. But without ANY changes or additions vanilla WoW is NOT a good game but just another one of those average mmorpgs.

Translated:

"I suck."

Its impossible to suck in a game as easy as this, fail troll

Translated:

"I haven't played an MMO older than 3 years and my favorite is SWOTR"