Please dont go all feenix and make GDKP raid runs legit :(

[Zach]

If you are interested you can read about the benefits of GDKP here:
http://promayhem.shivtr.com/

Using gdkp for guild raids is actually the funniest shit I've ever heard.

[Drain]

It's up to players to decide if they want to run this kind of system or not. It's their guild, raid, and gold. Trying to tell players they can't trade gold with each other is not smart. People exploiting and hacking will always be an issue too and should not be an excuse. Even without GDKP, people that want to cheat the system are going to do so. If you are against GDKP, then just don't join guilds/raids practicing it, and that is the solution. If most of the server doesn't support this system, then guilds/raids performing it will have trouble functioning in the first place, and probably scrap it. The community and its players should make this decision and either perform it or not perform it as they please, not GMs. If you end up having GDKP guilds and non GDKP guilds, then you can basically take your pick.

[zorex270]

The thing with Feenix gdkp are that all Raid pugs are Gdkp. For like a 1-2 years ago they were really rare. only like BWL Gdkp. Now they are for every damn raid pug. and new player either farm all day or buy gold from third party sellers. I dont care if guilds are doing it.

[mrmr]

It's up to players to decide if they want to run this kind of system or not. It's their guild, raid, and gold. Trying to tell players they can't trade gold with each other is not smart. People exploiting and hacking will always be an issue too and should not be an excuse. Even without GDKP, people that want to cheat the system are going to do so. If you are against GDKP, then just don't join guilds/raids practicing it, and that is the solution. If most of the server doesn't support this system, then guilds/raids performing it will have trouble functioning in the first place, and probably scrap it. The community and its players should make this decision and either perform it or not perform it as they please, not GMs. If you end up having GDKP guilds and non GDKP guilds, then you can basically take your pick.

So, for you, it's even fine when guilds sell loots to outside players?
39 guildies + 1 rich_scrubs
And the rich_scrub buying items?

Because to me the two things are exactly the same.
I shouldn't be the one telling you that GDKP can be played really well to just "make more golds".
Tell me, are you fine with "scamming" too?

[ironsides]

I don't mind if a guild wants to sell items to rich scrubs. That money isn't popping out of nowhere, it likely came from that scrub mining a fuckton of thorium, selling herbs, killing mobs and selling rare drops, etc. this makes the world more lively and gives people without the ability to raid with a guild the chance to get sicknasty loot. It's healthy for a servers population. The raider won't get as burned out farming consumables, the casual can see some sick loot.

Not that I think gdkp will be a thing here, anyways. When did TP start selling items? 1.5 years post launch? Hell, gdkp hasn't even come close to taking off on ED and it has how many tens of thousands gold injected artificially into the economy? The release schedule lends itself towards quicker progression than ED ever had. I just don't see it functioning here ...ever.

[nujabes]

@Drain, no it's really not up to the players until the people responsible for this server are made aware of the issue and they have the chance to take a stance on the issue.

There are no rules stated about this issue, which is why the discussion is brought up in the first place. It would be nice to know regardless of which side we're on, at least then we know where the admins stand.

Personally, I'm against it because PvE gear matters greatly for PvP. Nostalrius admins have already gone to great lengths when it comes to how gear is handled on this server. They might not have thought about this and now they have a chance to lay the rules before launch and decide whether or not people can earn gear by farming Dreamfoil for 2 weeks or if they actually have to learn how to play the game.

[Youfie]

@Drain, no it's really not up to the players until the people responsible for this server are made aware of the issue and they have the chance to take a stance on the issue.

There are no rules stated about this issue, which is why the discussion is brought up in the first place. It would be nice to know regardless of which side we're on, at least then we know where the admins stand.

Personally, I'm against it because PvE gear matters greatly for PvP. Nostalrius admins have already gone to great lengths when it comes to how gear is handled on this server. They might not have thought about this and now they have a chance to lay the rules before launch and decide whether or not people can earn gear by farming Dreamfoil for 2 weeks or if they actually have to learn how to play the game.

I don't really get how the staff could forbid it, I mean it's just a way of spending your money. And plus I don't think it hurts the server.

It won't appear before months and months at least, probably more, there will be absolutely no money injected into the economy, the more people will do it the higher they'll have to bid and the more they'll have to farm etc., so I don't really see the problem. It's just now how the game was meant to be played, but it still uses the game mechanics without doing anything wrong.

And even if the staff wanted to forbid it, they don't have any reliable way to do so. Like, if a government was to vote a law forbidding something they have absolutely no grasp on. If a law forbidding to spend less than 3 minutes brushing your teeth existed, how could anyone verify anyway ? I know my analogy kinda sucks , but you get the idea.

[nujabes]

I don't mind if a guild wants to sell items to rich scrubs. That money isn't popping out of nowhere

The problem is and this was mentioned before, if people manage to hack or abuse bugs in order to get gold, which is likely given we're on a private server, then when people pay to get boosted with hacked gold it not only starts to rapidly break the game economy down, it has the added side effect of artificially accelerating gear progression and ties that into the economy.

And the reason it's bad to tie the economy into gear progression is that the way the game economy was designed to begin with is not at all made to deal with that. You'll see all sorts of side effects, including a snowballing effect where gold drops way faster in value than it is supposed to while more and more gold is pumped into the economy. It creates insane inflation, items that would normally be worth a handful of gold would have to sell for thousands and thousands of gold.

I hope you see the issue here, because it is inevitably a disaster for the game economy and it'll be like playing on Warsong or Quality Gaming post-inflation.

[Youfie]

I don't mind if a guild wants to sell items to rich scrubs. That money isn't popping out of nowhere

The problem is and this was mentioned before, if people manage to hack or abuse bugs in order to get gold, which is likely given we're on a private server, then when people pay to get boosted with hacked gold it not only starts to rapidly break the game economy down, it has the added side effect of artificially accelerating gear progression and ties that into the economy.

And the reason it's bad to tie the economy into gear progression is that the way the game economy was designed to begin with is not at all made to deal with that. You'll see all sorts of side effects, including a snowballing effect where gold drops way faster in value than it is supposed to while more and more gold is pumped into the economy. It creates insane inflation, items that would normally be worth a handful of gold would have to sell for thousands and thousands of gold.

I hope you see the issue here, because it is inevitably a disaster for the game economy and it'll be like playing on Warsong or Quality Gaming post-inflation.

I'm not sure I'm following you.
Wouldn't the real problem be hacking, not GDKP then ?

And you just assume that abuse and hacks will happen, which I know nothing about, but seems to be a hasty & negative statement, isn't it ?

[ironsides]

The problem is and this was mentioned before, if people manage to hack or abuse bugs in order to get gold, which is likely given we're on a private server, then when people pay to get boosted with hacked gold it not only starts to rapidly break the game economy down, it has the added side effect of artificially accelerating gear progression and ties that into the economy.

And the reason it's bad to tie the economy into gear progression is that the way the game economy was designed to begin with is not at all made to deal with that. You'll see all sorts of side effects, including a snowballing effect where gold drops way faster in value than it is supposed to while more and more gold is pumped into the economy. It creates insane inflation, items that would normally be worth a handful of gold would have to sell for thousands and thousands of gold.

I hope you see the issue here, because it is inevitably a disaster for the game economy and it'll be like playing on Warsong or Quality Gaming post-inflation.

You're assuming that guilds will want to sell gear when progression is as fast as nostalrius's schedule is to be. Team Plague had been farming MC for over a year and a half and only was selling less than half of their items from Molten Core (with there being far more clears than usual due to a certain onyxia bug resetting raid IDs). With BWL being released 2 months post MC, guilds will still be gearing up their members, and I'd think they'd prefer their people get gear instead of some rando getting an onslaught girdle for 900g.

That being said, Emerald Dream's economy is far more "fucked" than any economy I've seen in a long time with the amount of exploited gold in circulation (I sold an alcor's sunrazor for 5000g for instance), and prices remain fairly reasonable for the "have-nots". I've never once seen insane inflation on a "blizzlike" server, as that would require everyone to exploit the gold loopholes-unlikely- or to buy gold--more unlikely.

The thing that causes warsong's inflation is that everyone has access to tons of gold without effort (one wsg win is 10g or something). Qgamings was caused by weedgamergirl/RG spamming "OPEN TRADE" in the middle of ironforge and giving everyone flasks of supreme power.

If there is gold artificially injected into the economy, whether it be through one of zzuks programs, or something as stupid as "we forgot to fix the environmental trigger on cuergos gold ", very few people will benefit from it, and the economy will be more or less, stable like EDs, with a small group of ultra rich players.