I never understood this "PvE = carebears" mentality

[Syleynna]

I'm curious why people label aversion to pvp as "scared" ... can anyone answer. I'd like honest posts if possible, unless you feel compelled to troll then go for it..

I for one, do not think of my character as anything but a bunch of pixels on a screen and therefore there is no fear of dying because if there is any pain or suffering involved, at least it is not being felt on my end. the only reason I don't want to PVP is because I have very little time online and want to reach my goals, instead of just spinning my wheels for a couple hours and end up in the same place I started when I logged on. Why even bother playing a game if your not getting any enjoyment .. right?

So here are my question for anyone who cares to answer:

1. Do PVP'ers have more of an empathetic relationship with their toons, and because of that believe they feel what their toons are experiencing?

2. Do PVP'ers project their feelings onto the other sides toons and want them to feel pain/fear, and somehow enjoy that feeling that they are frightening to someone?

3. Are there any strictly PVE'er who don't like PVP that are actually "scared"? And if any answer yes, why?

4. Is there another question I should be asking, because I'm asking the wrong questions and there is a completely different reason?


I keep reading about this fear .. and for a few days made up my own answers but I could be completely off base. So if anyone personally feels the non pvp'er is afraid I'm curious to know how they came to that conclusion.

Thanks!

[jungleyonki]

I'm curious why people label aversion to pvp as "scared" ... can anyone answer. I'd like honest posts if possible, unless you feel compelled to troll then go for it..

So here are my question for anyone who cares to answer:

1. Do PVP'ers have more of an empathetic relationship with their toons, and because of that believe they feel what their toons are experiencing?

2. Do PVP'ers project their feelings onto the other sides toons and want them to feel pain/fear, and somehow enjoy that feeling that they are frightening to someone?

3. Are there any strictly PVE'er who don't like PVP that are actually "scared"? And if any answer yes, why?

4. Is there another question I should be asking, because I'm asking the wrong questions and there is a completely different reason?


I keep reading about this fear .. and for a few days made up my own answers but I could be completely off base. So if anyone personally feels the non pvp'er is afraid I'm curious to know how they came to that conclusion.

Thanks!

Hi there, just a few days playing here and i came across a large amount of alliance players on the undead low zone and not a single one tried to attack me, that means they were scared of me? i don't get it..

1.- i like to put myself in a state of inmersion in every game i played so i guess the answer is yes and you don't need to be a PvP player for that matter.

2.- so.. if you like PvP means that you are not a friendly player? I like to learn from other players and i want them to feel the tension, meaning rivalry between two or more persons or groups for an object desired in common, usually resulting in a victor and a loser but not necessarily involving the destruction of the latter..

3.- i really don't like PvE

4.- i don't know..

5.- sorry 4 my english

thanks to you

[TOVAR]

In my humble opinion, PvP on more-less same level is okay and fun,most of the time (excrpt vs. twinks). Sometimes you die, sometimes you kil the other guy (casual PvP), that's fine. What sucks the most is ganking and corpse camping. I realize the other guy can't hurt you, can't steal anything from you, heck, can't even damage your gear like mobs can do! It's more like a situation where you are playing say.. basketball with friends and some moron waltz in and steals your ball, and leave it a mile away, undamaged. What was that? Just a waste of time and an annoyance. And possibly one 'lul' more for the ganker, not even some strong sense of satisfaction.
It's not the fear about 'dying' or whatever, it's the annoying feeling that someone is wasting your time for no apparent reason. I play chess, i love it. the very nature of a chess game involves a lot of figure 'dying' before the game ends. So nobody is scared of 'dying' in that game. But there are clocks/timers. Why? So nobody is allowed to waste the other guy's play time by poking his nose while he is waiting for him to make his move. it's very simple, actually.We are masters at wasting our own free time, but we hate when others waste our time.Beside that, many players take it too personal, and all that adds up to frustration and grief.

[Xaeminos]

I'm curious why people label aversion to pvp as "scared" ... can anyone answer. I'd like honest posts if possible, unless you feel compelled to troll then go for it..

I for one, do not think of my character as anything but a bunch of pixels on a screen and therefore there is no fear of dying because if there is any pain or suffering involved, at least it is not being felt on my end. the only reason I don't want to PVP is because I have very little time online and want to reach my goals, instead of just spinning my wheels for a couple hours and end up in the same place I started when I logged on. Why even bother playing a game if your not getting any enjoyment .. right?

So here are my question for anyone who cares to answer:

1. Do PVP'ers have more of an empathetic relationship with their toons, and because of that believe they feel what their toons are experiencing?

2. Do PVP'ers project their feelings onto the other sides toons and want them to feel pain/fear, and somehow enjoy that feeling that they are frightening to someone?

3. Are there any strictly PVE'er who don't like PVP that are actually "scared"? And if any answer yes, why?

4. Is there another question I should be asking, because I'm asking the wrong questions and there is a completely different reason?


I keep reading about this fear .. and for a few days made up my own answers but I could be completely off base. So if anyone personally feels the non pvp'er is afraid I'm curious to know how they came to that conclusion.

Thanks!

I don't think it has anything to do with the person's relationship with their character. I do however think it has a lot to do with a person's age/gender. I'm completely generalizing mind you.

The more sensitive you are, the more "dying" in a game (even though there is no actually loss of anything) affects you. The females I know that played all suffered this fear of dying syndrome when they first started playing. Now you take younger kids also. They're also more sensitive. There's a reason why on PvP servers the age was in general older. There's a reason why a lot of guilds were 18-21+.

If you were in your mid to late 20's when Vanilla hit, many people already had extensive experience playing Everquest and the like - which made Vanilla WoW seems like a casual game btw. From what I remember, when you're dead in Everquest, you're dead period.

I was one of those who thought PvE servers were carebear servers. But, mainly because I came from a background when you were dead, you stayed dead. The fact that Vanilla WoW was already a relatively casual game and people had issues with dying, it felt silly. Now the ironic part is the we eventually transferred realms to a PvE server because world PvP was dead and as I said in another thread, 40 people corpse hopping to your corpse to get into a raid was a waste of time.

[varth]

In everquest the big difference was when you died you actually lost exp. In the later levels you would lose 4+ hours of grinding exp per death. You could mitigate the exp loss by paying a cleric to rez you which would restore 90%+ of the exp lost, but you hide to bribe them pretty heavily since you usually died in hard to reach/far away places.
The other main difference was you had no drinking or eating, so when you were oom you would literally sit on the ground and do NOTHING for 5mins. I remember my buddy explaining drinking water in WoW day 2 and how fast he would be full mana and that just blowing my god damn mind.

[gotmilk0112]

In everquest the big difference was when you died you actually lost exp. In the later levels you would lose 4+ hours of grinding exp per death. You could mitigate the exp loss by paying a cleric to rez you which would restore 90%+ of the exp lost, but you hide to bribe them pretty heavily since you usually died in hard to reach/far away places.
The other main difference was you had no drinking or eating, so when you were oom you would literally sit on the ground and do NOTHING for 5mins. I remember my buddy explaining drinking water in WoW day 2 and how fast he would be full mana and that just blowing my god damn mind.

Yeah, hearing shit like this kinda makes me understand where Everquest players were coming from, when they called vanilla WoW "the kiddie casual game".

But having to sit and do nothing for 5 minutes doesn't sound very "hardcore" to me. Arbitrary wait times aren't difficult or challenging.

[Draffut]

... a lot of fun comes from getting your buddies and getting them back. Or the feeling of ruining someone's night because they can't play the game.

Are you saying you get enjoyment from the feeling of ruining someone's night because they can't play them game?

If you are saying that.. well ..... I'm at a loss as to what has gone wrong with our society that anyone would get enjoyment out of making other people miserable. If you are a parent .. go take your kids toys from them and smash them .. I know you will enjoy ruining your children's night.


If you aren't and it's just poor sentence structure, then my apologies for misunderstanding.

Nope, you read it right. It's a blast and you should try it sometime. It goes both ways, sometimes i get camped and cannot play the game. Embrace getting camped and not playing the game

I think that's one of the craziest things I have ever read. You shouldn't have to embrace not being able to enjoy something of yours.

"I own a dog. I have never seen it in my life or contributed to help it in any way, but the idea that it is probably still alive out there is comforting..."

[varth]

In everquest the big difference was when you died you actually lost exp. In the later levels you would lose 4+ hours of grinding exp per death. You could mitigate the exp loss by paying a cleric to rez you which would restore 90%+ of the exp lost, but you hide to bribe them pretty heavily since you usually died in hard to reach/far away places.
The other main difference was you had no drinking or eating, so when you were oom you would literally sit on the ground and do NOTHING for 5mins. I remember my buddy explaining drinking water in WoW day 2 and how fast he would be full mana and that just blowing my god damn mind.

Yeah, hearing shit like this kinda makes me understand where Everquest players were coming from, when they called vanilla WoW "the kiddie casual game".

But having to sit and do nothing for 5 minutes doesn't sound very "hardcore" to me. Arbitrary wait times aren't difficult or challenging.

Everquest basically made everything possible hardcore

#1 Leveling solo was impossible for every class except druids, necros, and.... wizards? So you had to group after level 20ish and it took 6months+ to reach raiding levels. There was no /played but it would take 20days+ easily and that's if you focused on leveling (im talking about the first couple years before EQ was figured out). There were quests but they didn't give exp, so the only way to level was killing mobs

#2 You know the Duke in Arathi that drops the stun trinket that spawns every couple of days? The overwhelming majority of loot in EQ was like that, with 3days + spawn times. Most of the good stuff was from a week spawn, so you would camp that shit for a week and pray that someone else wouldn't take the spawn. There was no tagging in the game so you just had to do the most damage to get the loot.

#3 Raids were 70 freaking people, and a lot of raids were not instanced so if another guild/pub raid cleared a raid zone you would have to wait a day+ for it to respawn.

#4 For raid difficulty later on devs made it so a lot of raid bosses had a fucking death touch. That's right every minute or two the boss would just instantly kill the tank no matter what you did, so you had to have multiple tanks. On top of death touch a lot of bosses did so much damage that you had to have a TEN SECOND cast time complete heal from a cleric hitting every second or two or the tank would die before the death touch.

#5 There was no leashing so if you had to run from a mob you had to run out of the entire zone, which were similar in size to WoW. This would usually lead to "trains" of mobs because you would agro everything you ran past while zoning out. This problem was compounded by the fact that a fair amount of zones would have some rarish creature that had an insane agro range, and there was no "in combat" warning so your first clue that you were fucked was some giant gryphon flying out of the fog charging your ass. If you didn't have a movespeed buff you were generally screwed.

#6 when you died there was no ghost form, instead you would appear at a graveyard naked and have to run back to your corpse and loot back all your gear

#7 a small but cool example of hardcore stuff was some mobs had spells that involved darkness. When that shit was cast on you your entire screen would just go black for a couple seconds. The first time that happened I thought my computer had died.

Fun as hell game because everything was so crazy

[Draffut]

The other main difference was you had no drinking or eating, so when you were oom you would literally sit on the ground and do NOTHING for 5mins. I remember my buddy explaining drinking water in WoW day 2 and how fast he would be full mana and that just blowing my god damn mind.

I remember having to do this in Lineage 2 also. Pretty much the first thing I noticed when I picked up WOW, and one of the reasons I embraced it so much at low levels.

[Syleynna]

I don't think it has anything to do with the person's relationship with their character. I do however think it has a lot to do with a person's age/gender. I'm completely generalizing mind you.

The more sensitive you are, the more "dying" in a game (even though there is no actually loss of anything) affects you. The females I know that played all suffered this fear of dying syndrome when they first started playing. Now you take younger kids also. They're also more sensitive. There's a reason why on PvP servers the age was in general older. There's a reason why a lot of guilds were 18-21+.

If you were in your mid to late 20's when Vanilla hit, many people already had extensive experience playing Everquest and the like - which made Vanilla WoW seems like a casual game btw. From what I remember, when you're dead in Everquest, you're dead period.

I was one of those who thought PvE servers were carebear servers. But, mainly because I came from a background when you were dead, you stayed dead. The fact that Vanilla WoW was already a relatively casual game and people had issues with dying, it felt silly. Now the ironic part is the we eventually transferred realms to a PvE server because world PvP was dead and as I said in another thread, 40 people corpse hopping to your corpse to get into a raid was a waste of time.

Fear of dying syndrome. I love it! It makes sense now, which make sense why PVP'ers think PVE'ers fear dying in game, because they also think it's real. Fascinating! It has got to be something in their nature to be able to feel this strongly about an object that cannot feel. Kind of like those guys in Japan who marry anime characters. They think they are actually real! I wonder if it's also a cultural thing?

I like your answer, and logically it makes a lot of sense to me. I just am not that sort of person, I can separate real from fantasy, so never understood having fear of my toon dying. If anything, I crack up at the dying sounds my toons makes. I don't even bother to fight a PVP'er just let them kill me so it's done fast and I can move on with playing the game.