Worried about Nostalrius policy on banning accounts

[Darkwinjax]

We agree, everyone who abused the fixed and timed spawns of any kind should be banned. Hopefully nost keeps the bans coming :^)

Except that is the opposite of what I am saying. I get that you're playing with me but I want to make my stance very clear. And if they do decide to ban everyone then why are hunters not banned for DMN farming.

Were they abusing any bug? If not then they shouldn't, however nost should make the encounter so they couldn't farm it anymore.

If they were indeed exploiting a bug then they should be banned. Please don't compare the situations, DM:E and tribute farm by both mages and hunters is a tricky subject and is pretty different than abusing nodes.

[PriestInOurTime]

Don't overreact. Really? Here is what Daemon said first:

Hi,

It is indeed a bug. The respawn pattern should not be deterministic. When a vein despawns, it may, or may not respawn afterwards, or another vein may respawn somewhere else.
You could not predict exactly when/where a vein would spawn on retail.

If there are other nodes bugged (mining or herbs), it is an exploit and it needs to be reported on the bugtracker.

Daemon.

Then he further clarified.

About 5 accounts have been banned for exploiting this bug, that is fixed now.
These accounts were doing it at an "industrial level" (gathering these same nodes way more than 500 times a week !) and thus gathering a lot of gold/items in a very little period of time.

Add both of these together and the story you get is: "These 5 nolifers found what they thought was a good grid spot and farmed it, much like others farm DM East/North or whatever their poison is. However, we decided that the predictability we coded was a mistake and the spawn should be more random and the grind less profitable. Thus we banned these farmers."

If this is NOT the story then for the love of god tell us the real story, with details. Because all your reassurances doesn't do shit unless you tell us what in your view went down. GM's keeping secret their detection methods for hacks and bots make sense, keeping secret what non-bot/non-hack in-game actions can get you banned doesn't. AT ALL.

And remember, knowing that the nodes are on a timer =/= knowing that it isn't intended. Tons of stuff in wow spawn on timer, so coming across that in the world really doesn't raise any red flags.

[Rhoen]

Don't overreact. Really? Here is what Daemon said first:

Hi,

It is indeed a bug. The respawn pattern should not be deterministic. When a vein despawns, it may, or may not respawn afterwards, or another vein may respawn somewhere else.
You could not predict exactly when/where a vein would spawn on retail.

If there are other nodes bugged (mining or herbs), it is an exploit and it needs to be reported on the bugtracker.

Daemon.

Then he further clarified.

About 5 accounts have been banned for exploiting this bug, that is fixed now.
These accounts were doing it at an "industrial level" (gathering these same nodes way more than 500 times a week !) and thus gathering a lot of gold/items in a very little period of time.

Add both of these together and the story you get is: "These 5 nolifers found what they thought was a good grid spot and farmed it, much like others farm DM East/North or whatever their poison is. However, we decided that the predictability we coded was a mistake and the spawn should be more random and the grind less profitable. Thus we banned these farmers."

If this is NOT the story then for the love of god tell us the real story. Because all your reassurances doesn't do shit unless you tell us what in your view went down. GM's keeping secret their detection methods for hacks and bots make sense, keeping secret what non-bot/non-hack in-game actions can get you banned doesn't. AT ALL.

And remember, knowing that the nodes are on a timer =/= knowing that it isn't intended. Tons of stuff in wow spawn on timer, so coming across that in the world really doesn't raise any red flags.

Perfectly put.

[notgunnahappen]

The 5 names who were banned don't surprise me as these are the type of players I'd expect to abuse this to an exploitative level. This is their server, they see everything and all the white knights rushing to the banned players defence don't see the full picture.

[RIPPAHREKT]

"Don't overreact. Really? Here is what Daemon said first"


Its seem that the nostalrius staff overeacted with banning people without warning that is a totally overacting the situation.

[PriestInOurTime]

This is their server, they see everything and all the white knights rushing to the banned players defence don't see the full picture.

Are you saying that you think that Daemon is lying about the reason for the banings, and that he actually has good reasons that he is keeping secret?

[nitsujcm2]

Don't overreact. Really? Here is what Daemon said first:

Hi,

It is indeed a bug. The respawn pattern should not be deterministic. When a vein despawns, it may, or may not respawn afterwards, or another vein may respawn somewhere else.
You could not predict exactly when/where a vein would spawn on retail.

If there are other nodes bugged (mining or herbs), it is an exploit and it needs to be reported on the bugtracker.

Daemon.

Then he further clarified.

About 5 accounts have been banned for exploiting this bug, that is fixed now.
These accounts were doing it at an "industrial level" (gathering these same nodes way more than 500 times a week !) and thus gathering a lot of gold/items in a very little period of time.

Add both of these together and the story you get is: "These 5 nolifers found what they thought was a good grid spot and farmed it, much like others farm DM East/North or whatever their poison is. However, we decided that the predictability we coded was a mistake and the spawn should be more random and the grind less profitable. Thus we banned these farmers."

If this is NOT the story then for the love of god tell us the real story, with details. Because all your reassurances doesn't do shit unless you tell us what in your view went down. GM's keeping secret their detection methods for hacks and bots make sense, keeping secret what non-bot/non-hack in-game actions can get you banned doesn't. AT ALL.

And remember, knowing that the nodes are on a timer =/= knowing that it isn't intended. Tons of stuff in wow spawn on timer, so coming across that in the world really doesn't raise any red flags.

I would love Pottu or Daemon to address this issue by answering the points made by this person. Why not respond to some of the people who are not over reacting.

I did the math...500 times a week, 3 hives, 5 nodes per hive on a 45 min timer is an avg of 72 nodes a day... without anyone else, you could do that in 3.5 hours. With other players farming, is it reasonable to say they could hit 72 times a day in 8 hours? I think so. Is that 'vanilla level farming'? Umm... yea... nolife farming is very vanilla.

How much time did the worst offender spend farming and how much ore did he get?
How much ore would be considered non-bug-exploiting acceptable for that same time spent?
How do you intend for flasks to work on this server with so little black lotus per player?

[terrigurl]

It kind of scares me that the GMs really think that all of the 5 banned account (me included) knew that what they were doing was a bug exploit. Obviously not since there still are lots of people arguing that it wasnt even a bug. Even if it were, the correct action is not a permanent ban, a warning would be more fitting.

And for the record calling someones worries about the GMs behavior an overreaction is out of this world. Boggles my mind that people like this even get to be in this position of power.

[Setup]

Proving malicious intent is the difference between murder and manslaughter. The assumption of malicious intent pretty terrible. Police look out the window and see criminals. Apparently GMs look and see cheaters.

Because you can't prove malicious intent, an appropriate response would be warning the players, fixing the "bug", taking away what they earned from "abusing" it, or some combination of the three. Bans, in the opinion of this individual, should be reserved for only the most extreme cases.

I guess they feel like bans of convenience. It's easier than dealing with the problem in another way.

[Diametra]

Mehhhhhh. I'm reading what GM wrote and having a hard time with it. How can we guess at someone's intent? Because it was persistent? Because it was egregious? Those are the same attributes I would attach to anyone hungry to get some gold and acting in any way to get it, illicit or otherwise. We can't guess at what they knew and didn't. Aside from that, we can't guess that what we see in Azeroth wasn't created in exactly the way it should be unless it is clearly unusual. Mining is all about finding a circuit and following it repeatedly.

That aside, talk of gloom and doom does nothing to further honest converstion here. Talk of flooding the GMs certainly isn't going to help and I guarentee you it will have no positive outcome...so stop that right away. OK?

On a side note, someone better get out there an get some arcane crystals, because there aren't many in Ally AH and the ones that are there are really pricey. Pick up yer goddamn pickaxes and get back to work.

Oh...and let's just go ahead and unban these people. Thanks.

Diametra-Ellipsea