Please dont go all feenix and make GDKP raid runs legit :(

[smilkovpetko]

Alright seems the same propaganda here like in p...x.

Let me enlighten you what will happen :

1.Crafting Gear from Professions will Devalue to 0 point (useless) .

2.With that crafting Gear all this "mining,skinning,tailoring" . Goes down too (with minor exception of Tailoring).

3.World Drops will Devalue to 0 point (useless).

4.Consumes will start skyrock with price since farmers will get reduced. (people will 90% choose to farm gold from GDKP)

5.Preraid requirement would slowly become a Gold requirement. (we don't care about gear,show your gold).

6.Other Alternative to GDKP will be wiped out and it will remain only system.

7.Items will become Expensive so People would have to farm Gold for Gear instead Gold for Consumes.

8.Scammers would be all around , some leaders will also scam 5% from each pot legally "which could go high number".

9.There is no real Evidence of what will happen (gold trade or mailbox) since it would affect 40 People.

10.Leaders will request "example" : show 10 000 gold if you want to join us. (this was example).

11.People will become Solo and the attitude will get changed to more toxic instead team spirit depend. (lfr blizzard way).

12.Leaders of Pugs are Allowed to "Goldban" people for minor mistake or anytime he wish for if he feel and this is making him profit from that person more.

13.People would stop worry about fun and progressing , they would all "gold,gold,gold".

14.Low Geared People will never be allowed to step in Raid except gold showing. (this make that people leave server).

15.Some Rich "Green Geared" will do High End Raid and get this Gear immediate and fast while 100 others wont be able to step in High End.

16. All Casual and Progressive Guilds Risk getting Wiped out completely and only "Hardcore" will Remain.


- Keep in Note all this happen before in F....x - and i already have that experience .
- Only one who benefit from GDKP are Fully High End Geared by the cost of 90% of overall Population.
- Everyone else Risk leaving Server because of the mention Reasons once there is a choice to do.

[pootpoot]

Back in feenix, i made 4 accounts lvl 60s, afk in bg, sell badges (9.8g ea), then do GDKP, huehuehuehuehuehue.. got t1.5 in a month.

[PriestInOurTime]

- Only one who benefit from GDKP are Fully High End Geared by the cost of 90% of overall Population.

This just doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't the remaining 90% make their own raids? Why wouldn't the people without gold progress like normal, as if the GDKP raids weren't there? I'd venture a guess that the real reason most probably was a lack of players willing to lead progression raids. The amount of players willing to raidlead content often dries up fast. And then all of a sudden the only alternative left are the few runs that still has leaders, the GDKP runs.

Thinking that if there were no GDKP runs all of a sudden the experienced raid leaders would instead lead progression runs is not realistic, so why would disallowing GDKP improve the situation exactly? I'm not saying that we will not see the amount of progression guildruns go down and the server eventually die off at some point after all content has been cleared. I just don't think that the GDKP are the cause of it. Rather the prevelence of GDKP/Boostruns and lack of anything else is just one of the symptoms of a server that no longer has any injections of new content.

At that point I'd hope that a second server would be opened, and we can start over again. Nostalrius Season 2 if you will. Perhaps with all content availible right away, that would be a most interesting experiment.

[Xylon666Darkstar]

Too many ukes, not enough doms @ lack of leaders lol.

[smilkovpetko]

- Only one who benefit from GDKP are Fully High End Geared by the cost of 90% of overall Population.

This just doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't the remaining 90% make their own raids? Why wouldn't the people without gold progress like normal, as if the GDKP raids weren't there? I'd venture a guess that the real reason most probably was a lack of players willing to lead progression raids. The amount of players willing to raidlead content often dries up fast. And then all of a sudden the only alternative left are the few runs that still has leaders, the GDKP runs.

Thinking that if there were no GDKP runs all of a sudden the experienced raid leaders would instead lead progression runs is not realistic, so why would disallowing GDKP improve the situation exactly? I'm not saying that we will not see the amount of progression guildruns go down and the server eventually die off at some point after all content has been cleared. I just don't think that the GDKP are the cause of it. Rather the prevelence of GDKP/Boostruns and lack of anything else is just one of the symptoms of a server that no longer has any injections of new content.

At that point I'd hope that a second server would be opened, and we can start over again. Nostalrius Season 2 if you will. Perhaps with all content availible right away, that would be a most interesting experiment.

There is a reason for this :

1.Many people can't fit in the complex of counting , working proper while leading the raid and doing the "gold calculations/distribution" (i tak overall view) include here also scammers that will scam 40 people gold instead "one pity item".

2.Only few people who understand perfect this system will be able to do raids.

3.There will be opening of "ninja people or trustful/untrustful leaders bad/good leaders" list which unlikely for some mistake many will fill inside this list and will cause only these few people able to lead instead everyone.

4.There will be no alternative to this GDKP since everyone will choose to do it and those people who are unable to fit in the complexity of the system won't be able to lead raids or pugs.

5. It make sense why remaining 90%, its because people will always choose to join "trustful" GDKP leaders by high end guilds only and high end geared only .

6. Meanwhile progressive guilds/casual guilds will go down and this will leave only "hardcore high end" and this is connection among number 5. (there will not be lot more choice) .

7. Why shall we turn this server in PUG's run instead Guild's runs?.

8.I would given you whole situation what has happened before and experience about it with evidences but i am afraid i can't do that because it will end up "server advertisement" . (need approval by Admins to post screenshots with examples).

9.It will destroy server and i am 100% positive in that and this will cost 1-2 years amount of time so please don't (saying from personal experience) .

10.High End people can always switch to level new alternative character when they clear everything and there is no real reason to see them "farming gold" beside "selling that gold" when they got full bis gear.

11. New people in server will not be able to fit in this system because they will need to farm tons of gold in order to join raid or get at least few pieces of gear.

12.Meanwhile Gold is split but New Players still waste gold on gear and consumes while High End gear keep their Gold because they wont even need to use consumes . (this will cause strong damage to economy inbalance). (few people will become enormous rich while everyone will remain on the bottom).

- Anyway i agree with your idea , let make "new nostalrius" server with all contents available and go see the experiment then tell me how many points i have said will become realistic within 6-8 months - .

[Luciphur]

I dont get why you dont like the idea so much. Server economy heavily relies on farm and raiders are the ones who make economy work, because their demand in consumables is higher than average. Gdkp runs in one hand gives raiders more gold to invest in economy, and in other hand they give fresh players motivation to farm more. Both things only lead to progress of market which in the end benefits all the players likewise.

[smilkovpetko]

I dont get why you dont like the idea so much. Server economy heavily relies on farm and raiders are the ones who make economy work, because their demand in consumables is higher than average. Gdkp runs in one hand gives raiders more gold to invest in economy, and in other hand they give fresh players motivation to farm more. Both things only lead to progress of market which in the end benefits all the players likewise.

Because it is already proven and i have already witness/experienced this.

If you have read the previous post i did.
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 50#p121932


-Economy will become imbalance and unstable , Consumes will Skyrock with prices , Craft Items and World Drops will Devalue to 0 .
-Players will less Farm , and will more focus on GDKP gold making.
-Fresh players will not be able to join in raids at all because low gear and they will not have the gold requirement to join in raid. "aka show me 1000 gold if you want to join and prove as buyer".

- Enough said by me, i don't want to be rude but what needs to be said about this system i did in the last 3 posts -

If the system start working on server "using pugs instead regular Guild Runs" i am out of here.

[PriestInOurTime]

Because it is already proven and i have already witness/experienced this.

It is not at all proven.

And what you have experienced on some other server at a completely different point of the vanilla timeline wouldn't necessarily apply here even if a strong causal relationship had been demonstrated, which it hasn't.

[Luciphur]

Because it is already proven and i have already witness/experienced this.

If you have read the previous post i did.
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 50#p121932


-Economy will become imbalance and unstable , Consumes will Skyrock with prices , Craft Items and World Drops will Devalue to 0 .
-Players will less Farm , and will more focus on GDKP gold making.
-Fresh players will not be able to join in raids at all because low gear and they will not have the gold requirement to join in raid. "aka show me 1000 gold if you want to join and prove as buyer".

- Enough said by me, i don't want to be rude but what needs to be said about this system i did in the last 3 posts -

If the system start working on server "using pugs instead regular Guild Runs" i am out of here.

I think you completely missed my point.
1) consumables will cost more = it will be easier for new players to farm gold
2) new players with gold will invest gold to some crafts anyway. Robe of the Winter Night, Lionheart Helm, some crafted weapon are way easier to get than MC level epics.
3) infact the only players who will farm less will be raiders. And in case of hardcore raiders its a good thing, simply because of time they invest into raids.
4) In the end its up to players to decide what to do.

[Marharbal]

It's a huge problem with "economic argumentation" that you can draw so many different lines of causality from the same starting point and they all seem to make sense... the entirety of market theories is a huge mess and rather seems to be there for legitimizing current political power and action instead of working as a unified logical system, where only varying underlying principles lead to different outcomes in argumentation.

That said, it's problematic to presume that "people are greedy" as stated above. This already takes the "money system" aus "given", as a natural constant.
A better way to say it might be the following: People can only think about themselves, this is not meant in a negative way, it is a simple fact of our individual existence and our natural perspectivity. The important thing here is, that we can integrate other people in that thinking process, so that we can see our own benefit in the benefit of others. The preconditions for that are built up social bonds, that somewhat work as a guarantee.
The problem might be, that a highly developed money-system undermines these relations because it anonymizes them. Investing in social relations becomes obsolete - i think that's is the underlying fear that you can read between many arguments in this topic.

GDKP is just one of many phenomenons related to such an development. But it's a symptom and not the cause - so restricting or banning it will not alter the nature of the Server-System itself, therefore, as stated above, probably will only built up tension between Team and Playerbase, might not even work (black market aso.)

It was also stated, that a main problem might be the difference between a Classic-Private-Server and the official ones. Every Expansion works as some kind of reset, it devalues that built up economic (which stand in correlation to the progress and equip of a player) differences between the Players.
-> So maybe every Server, that will not artificially reset the economic diversity in it's "society" (f.e. with an expansion, or by withdrawing accumulated money out of the system) sooner or later will face the described problems. Probably this is inevitable...

... but it's somewhat possible to slow down that process, mainly by finding ways of withdrawing money from high-end-people out of the system ( expensive skill-changes f.e.).



Well, this comment got a little bit out of control, but i wanted to address what i think is the underlying problem... ^^.

Greetings