Lootcouncil in a nutshell

[Setup]

Pros and cons to both. I favor DKP because I don't have to be someone's friend to get the items I want. If you play long enough, you're going to get 95% of the items you want, regardless of the loot system. You just have to be patient, and the order the items are distributed will be more or less fair.

But what about the remaining 5%? What happens when your guild gets the one rejuv gem that drops in a 6 month period? The one wraithblade that's going to drop for the next 11 weeks? LC isn't going to hand those over to someone simply because they're high-performing... not until officers and their friends have them.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing! It's a good strategy to stack your officers with loot because they're less likely to gquit. But from the perspective of a raider, it also means for many items, you'll literally never see that loot because you have the wrong friends -- it may as well have orange text on it.

And from a leadership perspective, I prefer DKP because LC requires you to spend even more time managing the feelings of 40 people.

[ILikeEggs]

Pros and cons to both. I favor DKP because I don't have to be someone's friend to get the items I want. If you play long enough, you're going to get 95% of the items you want, regardless of the loot system. You just have to be patient, and the order the items are distributed will be more or less fair.

But what about the remaining 5%? What happens when your guild gets the one rejuv gem that drops in a 6 month period? The one wraithblade that's going to drop for the next 11 weeks? LC isn't going to hand those over to someone simply because they're high-performing... not until officers and their friends have them.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing! It's a good strategy to stack your officers with loot because they're less likely to gquit. But from the perspective of a raider, it also means for many items, you'll literally never see that loot because you have the wrong friends -- it may as well have orange text on it.

And from a leadership perspective, I prefer DKP because LC requires you to spend even more time managing the feelings of 40 people.

my guild runs loot council and the officers have worse gear than core members. Not everyone is a greedy fuck. Just gotta learn to avoid guilds that use "loot council" but really it's a "loot circle" where all of the officers take turns getting all the good shit. Loot council is either corrupt or fair, there's no in between. Find a guild with fair council members and it's a solid loot system, find a guild that has greedy assholes in power positions and it's a completely bullshit system. The system itself has nothing to do with it, it's the greedy pricks that ruin it.

[Böw]

Pros and cons to both. I favor DKP because I don't have to be someone's friend to get the items I want. If you play long enough, you're going to get 95% of the items you want, regardless of the loot system. You just have to be patient, and the order the items are distributed will be more or less fair.

But what about the remaining 5%? What happens when your guild gets the one rejuv gem that drops in a 6 month period? The one wraithblade that's going to drop for the next 11 weeks? LC isn't going to hand those over to someone simply because they're high-performing... not until officers and their friends have them.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing! It's a good strategy to stack your officers with loot because they're less likely to gquit. But from the perspective of a raider, it also means for many items, you'll literally never see that loot because you have the wrong friends -- it may as well have orange text on it.

And from a leadership perspective, I prefer DKP because LC requires you to spend even more time managing the feelings of 40 people.

You've been influenced by your guild leader who cares way more about people's feelings than anything else. In a good loot council, people's feelings should have nothing to do with the gear they receive. If someone gets so mad or upset because they didn't get a piece of gear that they make a huge stink about it you don't want them in your guild. You don't need that shitty attitude.

But what about the remaining 5%? What happens when your guild gets the one rejuv gem that drops in a 6 month period? The one wraithblade that's going to drop for the next 11 weeks? LC isn't going to hand those over to someone simply because they're high-performing... not until officers and their friends have them.

In this situation they will go to the person who has been in the guild the longest, who performs the best, and who really deserves it. That may or may not be someone in the council, but you have to trust that the council will make the right choice. For the most part, depending on how long the guild has been alive, those in the council have been in the guild longer than the vast majority of the members and/or out perform everyone else in their class/group by a significant margin consistently. In some guilds their council is made up of officers and class leaders, some don't have any class leads. You have to be able to trust the leadership and officers, and if you can't, you shouldn't be in that guild.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing! It's a good strategy to stack your officers with loot because they're less likely to gquit. But from the perspective of a raider, it also means for many items, you'll literally never see that loot because you have the wrong friends -- it may as well have orange text on it.

If the loot you get from the guild is based on if you're friends with people then the council is corrupt and you shouldn't be a part of the guild. I can tell you that there's a nice chunk of Axiom that dislikes me, and a few of those on the council dislike me as well, but they look past it because of the numbers I put up and because of my attendance and my overall contribution to the guild. I've also been mature enough to pass up items to other hunters if they would benefit more from it than I would, for example, we never have t1 hunter chest drop, but I passed it to another hunter to help out our hunter core even though I was going to get it.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing! It's a good strategy to stack your officers with loot because they're less likely to gquit. But from the perspective of a raider, it also means for many items, you'll literally never see that loot because you have the wrong friends -- it may as well have orange text on it.

If you have this attitude going into a LC environment you're just waiting for it to fail. You have to be consistent with your performance and attendance and you will get the loot that you deserve in time if the LC is fair. Of course for things like Legendaries, like TF, that would go to the main tank who has been tanking since the beginning of the guild, because he deserves it, nothing to do with friends, just what's fair.

[Talzia]

Not all loot councils are corrupt, we take some pretty good measures to ensure we are passing out loot as fairly as possible while prioritizing progression.

Of course there are always people who believe they deserved something, and will be upset someone else wins it, and in my experience these same types are the ones who complained under DKP when someone saved up and bought an item. They complain about everything and want to put in minimal effort, their endgame is to gear out their characters in every purple item, not to progress or enjoy the content. They'll get a big ticket item in any loot system and instead of being like 'hey cool I got this Nelths tear', they're gonna be looking for the next item immediately. For us it's simple, because that isn't the type of person we want anyways. We've got the unique position of having used DKP and LC, and LC is preferable for us.

As far as the person who said LC isn't as much work as DKP, for me personally, I find it's a lot more work. I do a lot of extra things though, attendance/looted item tracking on website, I periodically make charts showing percentage of loot distribution to each raider in each armor type/role, we have officer meetings that span almost 2H after every raid, at least 50% of those meetings is discussing performance so that it can be talked over with people by their CLs, and we have a very open door policy about loot decisions.

I think it's all worth it, and I actually feel like Bow illustrates our loot system pretty well, he is someone that is not personally liked by every officer but his performance and attendance means he gets items. He's also a nice enough guy that he passes for other hunters as appropriate and isn't generally loot obsessed.

DKP can be a great system too depending on the kind of guild you want to be - and we used it initially. Unfortunately, DKP cannot be structured to take into account performance or how much of an upgrade something is for a person. So the question is if you want to handle those factors within the loot system or not.

[Lorilay]

I've raided under both systems, and my experience is that DKP breeds loot-whoring much more than loot council ever did. Fortunately, I've never had to deal with corrupt loot councils, but I've also put in an effort to join guilds that aren't super loot-focused. Under DKP, you're encouraged to compete against your guildmates in DK points rather than performance to get loot, and typically need to game the system somewhat to come out on top for those coveted rare items. Under loot council you just do your thing and delegate the loot issues to the officers (and /beg for feral tank loot when it drops).

[smilkovpetko]

Best system ever i seen and most perfect is :

DKP based on last 30 Days Activity .

this is how it work and why is best .

Example:
Guild raiding 4 days per week.

Person A - he has been active 100% of the last 30 days and has receive 1 items.
Person B - he has been active 100% of the last 30 days and has receive 0 items.
Person C - he has been active 75% of the last 30 days and has receive 0 items.

Head Epic drop :

Person A bid 100-1
Person B bid 100-0
Person C bid 75-0

Person B win here.

Person A bid 100-1
Person C bid 75-0

They both roll for the item because they are equal.

(Rank priority is choice of the guild policy) .

days/items counted are based on last 30 active days .

There are addons for this system and in my opinion is most effective and fair toward those who are active in raids , contributing and working their best for guild.



Good luck and take this system as most fair one.

[Charizard]

anyone arguing that loot council is not inherently flawed and undemocratic is either heavily biased, delusional or a combination of the two

decide whether you prefer a healthy guild environment or pure raid optimization and choose your loot distribution system accordingly

everything is politics

#CLC

[Böw]

anyone arguing that loot council is not inherently flawed and undemocratic is either heavily biased, delusional or a combination of the two

decide whether you prefer a healthy guild environment or pure raid optimization and choose your loot distribution system accordingly

everything is politics

#CLC

you typed some words but you didn't really say anything

[Datruth]

anyone arguing that loot council is not inherently flawed and undemocratic is either heavily biased, delusional or a combination of the two

decide whether you prefer a healthy guild environment or pure raid optimization and choose your loot distribution system accordingly

everything is politics

#CLC

you typed some words but you didn't really say anything

Well said Böw. How come you're spot on half of the time and a full blown retard the other half of the time? Forum accountsharing?

[Tinkertown]

DKP systems suck because they reward attendance and playing the loot system over performance and doing what is best for progression.

Loot Council sucks because it (almost) invariably leads to at least slight corruption.

/roll sucks because it favors being new and needing everything.