Third week of raiding: Eye of Sulfuras

[SnowFlakes]

Let the hate flow through you!

but I digress...

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/222/zkw7.jpg

See I'm >>>>> You

Toodles!

You seem incredibly triggered, did I somehow hurt your feelings?
I would comment on the whole me> u comment but I couldn't find any good logs from you on raidstats, only medicore healing ones.

[Talzia]

Hey, for the record - we're hybrid friendly. We just don't think theres any point to bringing a ret paladin right now. We literally house like 50% of the raiding feral druids on Nostalrius. We don't run a shadow hybrid healer because we haven't had reliable warlocks. I mean, I don't understand the shade being thrown out for people wanting to play vanilla the way they want to play it, to each their own. That goes for ret paladins, for guilds, for whoever. I don't really care if someone specs 0/0/0 if they're not in my guild, but I am pointing out why it's pretty normal to give HoR to a warrior.

[Soyoen]

These discussions reminds me of the one we had on ED. Personally I prefer 30< min MCs and 45<min BWLs, in which there will never be any room for a paladin other than holy. For casuals though, why not - with half the raid afk and on /follow it really doesn't matter.

[Badtank]

This discussions reminds me of the one we had on ED. Personally I prefer 30< min MCs and 45<min BWLs, in which there will never be any room for a paladin other than holy. For casuals though, why not - with half the raid afk and on /follow it really doesn't matter.

By the time you need clears that quick, you can do it with 40 of w/e. Why the hell do you need to do it now, what the fuck is the point of shorting a 2 hour raid to a 1 hour raid. We barley have anything to do right now as it is.

[Theloras]

This discussions reminds me of the one we had on ED. Personally I prefer 30< min MCs and 45<min BWLs, in which there will never be any room for a paladin other than holy. For casuals though, why not - with half the raid afk and on /follow it really doesn't matter.

you mean the raids where it took you requiring all 40 people doing the AOE dmg that I could do solo...

don't tell me we're going down that rabbit hole again kid

[Theloras]

Hey, for the record - we're hybrid friendly. We just don't think theres any point to bringing a ret paladin right now. We literally house like 50% of the raiding feral druids on Nostalrius. We don't run a shadow hybrid healer because we haven't had reliable warlocks. I mean, I don't understand the shade being thrown out for people wanting to play vanilla the way they want to play it, to each their own. That goes for ret paladins, for guilds, for whoever. I don't really care if someone specs 0/0/0 if they're not in my guild, but I am pointing out why it's pretty normal to give HoR to a warrior.

no one has issue with you giving it to a warrior - we are just responding to the try hard elitists who want to min/max molten core to the point of LOLERDOM

would it be best suited in the hands of a PvE Ret Paladin or Enhancement Shaman? of course, but do what you guys think is right and for the best overall harmony of your guild.

[Soyoen]

This discussions reminds me of the one we had on ED. Personally I prefer 30< min MCs and 45<min BWLs, in which there will never be any room for a paladin other than holy. For casuals though, why not - with half the raid afk and on /follow it really doesn't matter.

By the time you need clears that quick, you can do it with 40 of w/e. Why the hell do you need to do it now, what the fuck is the point of shorting a 2 hour raid to a 1 hour raid. We barley have anything to do right now as it is.

MC above 60min is extremely tedious, different individuals value different aspects of the game. When I am fully stocked for 6months of raiding then I don't intend on wasting time teambuild wiping X amount of times on trash packs. Of course you can have 2 hour runs without any wipes, in which case I can volunteer to /follow someone whilst doing something else meanwhile.

you mean the raids where it took you requiring all 40 people doing the AOE dmg that I could do solo...

With the entire suppression room taking >10min longer to complete, no thanks. Then you also had the content differences in gear in combination with every hp and armor value being buffed on the server with less content. The further towards end content we're moving the less of an impact will certain offspecs have in comparison to certain pure dps classes. That doesn't mean there's no room for them in normal raids, just not the best raids.

[Tyraeus]

bla bla muh clear times, bla bla hardcore 4 lyfe

What about, you know...fun?

The difference between having a TrueDeeps™ and a hybrid DPS on the average boss kill will be like ...10 seconds. Are you seriously telling me that 10 seconds of your time is that precious? Who are you, Jesus?

Let alone the fact that a rogue or fury can't LoH the tank and save the raid...which I've done quite a few times as a ret pally...

[Tyraeus]

rant

If people don't want you in their raid run I suggest you make your own pug or guild, don't force your shit specc down other peoples throats.

I was a GM for a while, actually, of a good raiding guild. I didn't (and still don't) care about numbers - if the boss is dead then your raid did enough DPS. Worry about it if you're wiping at 5% or dying to enrage timers, other than that it's a non-issue. Factors like survivability, awareness, uptime and positioning are FAR bigger influences on DPS than class or spec. But if you were any good, you'd already know that and I wouldn't have to explain it to you

Badtank & Talzia nice to see ppl using their brains a bit and some raiders who're more open-minded...I'd hoped there would be friendlier people on this server and it's nice to see that

[Theloras]

This discussions reminds me of the one we had on ED. Personally I prefer 30< min MCs and 45<min BWLs, in which there will never be any room for a paladin other than holy. For casuals though, why not - with half the raid afk and on /follow it really doesn't matter.

By the time you need clears that quick, you can do it with 40 of w/e. Why the hell do you need to do it now, what the fuck is the point of shorting a 2 hour raid to a 1 hour raid. We barley have anything to do right now as it is.

MC above 60min is extremely tedious, different individuals value different aspects of the game. When I am fully stocked for 6months of raiding then I don't intend on wasting time teambuild wiping X amount of times on trash packs. Of course you can have 2 hour runs without any wipes, in which case I can volunteer to /follow someone whilst doing something else meanwhile.

you mean the raids where it took you requiring all 40 people doing the AOE dmg that I could do solo...

With the entire suppression room taking >10min longer to complete, no thanks. Then you also had the content differences in gear in combination with every hp and armor value being buffed on the server with less content. The further towards end content we're moving the less of an impact will certain offspecs have in comparison to certain pure dps classes. That doesn't mean there's no room for them in normal raids, just not the best raids.

Oh, I also forgot to say that your mages absolutely fcuking sucked donkey balls on nefarian phase 3 - the video you had posted showing your "optimal raid clearance" actually showed everyone exactly how NOT to handle undead construct spawns...

Again, I would have killed them SOLO, thus allowing the casters to remain focused on single target DPS on Nefarian for the final 20%...

- Holy Wrath to grab them all
- drop consecration
- throw a Straholme Holy Water
- /sit to proc Force Reactive Disc
= 40 DEAD undead constructs

but I digress...