Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Mryul wrote: This results in alliance players taking a bit longer to hit level 60. This results in even longer queues for horde players.

Alliance players are angry with the gankers because it slows their leveling proces down.
Horde players are angry with gankers because it makes the queues even worse.
The gankers are angry with the fact there are few allies at level 60. And then they proceed to gank people trying to get to level 60.

As you can probably figure, the gankers aren't very good with logic. You can also see in my signature that they actually have no idea what they are talking about either.

nervous wrote:

Mryul wrote: This results in alliance players taking a bit longer to hit level 60. This results in even longer queues for horde players.

Alliance players are angry with the gankers because it slows their leveling proces down.
Horde players are angry with gankers because it makes the queues even worse.
The gankers are angry with the fact there are few allies at level 60. And then they proceed to gank people trying to get to level 60.

As you can probably figure, the gankers aren't very good with logic. You can also see in my signature that they actually have no idea what they are talking about either.

I'd like to know why you think that this wave of alliance will suddenly PvP. The first wave of alliance by and large did not pvp compared to the first wave of horde. Most of the alliance I expected to pvp (having been big pvpers on other realms) ended up getting rank 5-7 and began raidlogging. Most got that rank within 1-2 weeks of hitting 60.

What makes you think alliance that are driven to pvp would give up instead of say, not quest in the area with swarms of horde deathsquads roaming?

Mryul wrote:It's simple math.

A % of the alliance is bound to enjoy PvP. The larger number of allies at level 60 equals a bigger number of people at level 60 that are interested in PvP, thus easing the queue timer for horde players. There's nothing complicated in that.

The % of people interested in PvP might not be the same on ally and horde side, but there will be a % on both sides. With more numbers you'll have more people interested in PvP. I don't know why I have to explain this.

What you are refering to "driven to pvp" and so on.. Is a small elitiest group of people. You don't need to be a die hard elitist PvPer to enjoy battlegrounds and PvP in general.

Tapu wrote:But what is current state of the player ratio A/H? about?

nervous wrote:

Mryul wrote:It's simple math.

A % of the alliance is bound to enjoy PvP. The larger number of allies at level 60 equals a bigger number of people at level 60 that are interested in PvP, thus easing the queue timer for horde players. There's nothing complicated in that.

The % of people interested in PvP might not be the same on ally and horde side, but there will be a % on both sides. With more numbers you'll have more people interested in PvP. I don't know why I have to explain this.

What you are refering to "driven to pvp" and so on.. Is a small elitiest group of people. You don't need to be a die hard elitist PvPer to enjoy battlegrounds and PvP in general.

Horde has always had much longer queue times, even at the start of the server. The queue times would not get better if horde left the alliance alone, they would only be "less worse". If horde were to stop ganking the alliance so they could get to 60 faster, they'd still have to deal with an increase in horde pvpers hitting level 60 (and there are far more as can be implied by the amount of raid guilds on alliance vs horde).

There's no real solution to this unfortunately. The only thing that comes close is a faction transfer and that only provides a temporary bandaid fix while being an absolute hassle (shamans>paladin conversions) for admin.

edit: In my opinion, devs shouldn't be concerned with this imbalance. Horde has always been the faction that has long queue times. Alliance was always the faction with more raiding options/instant queues. That's just how it is. Alliance will get kills on world bosses, regardless of the level 60 imbalance. They may not get the first kill, sure, but not every horde guild will bother waking up at 3 AM to get that Taerar spawn.

Mryul wrote:
Well, you're incorrect on some of your logic by saying it would only be "less worse."

The ganking of allies is a catalyst to this problem. The people who are ganking are actively working towards making the issue a lot bigger than what it should be.

nervous wrote:

Mryul wrote:
Well, you're incorrect on some of your logic by saying it would only be "less worse."

The ganking of allies is a catalyst to this problem. The people who are ganking are actively working towards making the issue a lot bigger than what it should be.

We can both agree that of the two faction's pre 60 population, horde are more prone to pvp. We can also agree that the pre 60 population is more or less balanced with horde being slightly more populated.

Therefore, if both sides didn't gank at all, an equal amount of alliance and horde more or less would be hitting 60. And of those hitting 60, more horde would be pvping compared to alliance, increasing the queue times more for horde.

As is, horde is ganking alliance more (if forum topics are 100% indicative of the amount of ganking) leading to alliance not hitting 60 as fast. The first situation with no sides ganking at all would end up worse, but it would be less worse than the second, which is how it is currently.

So any 'solution' we have, whether it's as dumb as those ones in the suggestion forums saying "LETS REMOVE HONOR FROM WORLD KILLS" or as big of a nightmare logistically as faction transfers, are temporary bandaid fixes. Controlling the faction balance is a pointless waste of energy as factions will always be imbalanced. If alliance really can't level to 60, I can send them to a few places where absolutely zero horde go/know about with enough mobs to grind them there for a mindnumbingly long 4-5 hours/level.