Dishonor Points

[Shimmerleaf]

Recently, I decided to read through the original game manual. It was an enlightening experience, and it was interesting to see how much of the information was out of date. I believe it was an especially old copy, particularly because some things were from before the game's release. As an example, the old female troll model was shown on the race menu. One thing that caught my attention, however, was something I had never heard about: dishonor points. It seemed that at one time, they had planned to add dishonor points alongside honor points. This is quoted directly from my manual: "Even among enemies as bitter as the Horde and Alliance, there is honor. If you flaunt this honor and engage in objectionable PvP play, such as killing new players vastly inferior to you in level, or killing essential non-combat NPCs such as flight masters or quest givers, you will earn dishonor. If you accumulate enough dishonor through your criminal actions, you will be branded an outlaw. As a consequence, you'll suffer experience penalties, lose access to your own faction cities, and become so hated by even your own kind that every faction NPC will attack you on sight. World of Warcraft is forgiving of transgressions, however, and if you refrain from dishonorable actions for a long enough time, you will eventually return to favor with your faction and cast off your criminal label."

Although I think a few of those penalties are a bit severe, it would have been a very intriguing system to have in the game. It may have also helped to prevent a lot of the griefing we have to deal with. What are your opinions?

[gotmilk0112]

They don't seem to mean anything. IIRC someone back in vanilla retail actually farmed Dishonor Kills, I think 100,000+ of them, and their rep with major cities went down and down, but never went down any further than Unfriendly.

If it were up to me, DK's would actually have penalties associated with them, along with making it so that killing players more than 6 levels below you counts as a DK. Because honestly, having it only apply to NPCs is really dumb.

Some ideas could be:

-debuff that grants 2-5 times extra honor for an enemy player killing you; debuff persists until killed by another player
-DKs lowering your honor, perhaps setting your rank back by 30-50 HKs
-DKs causing certain NPCs to refuse service to you (vendors, flight masters, auction house, etc) for 30-60 minutes

Just...something to really discourage ganking players who have no chance of fighting back.

[Simonich]

They don't seem to mean anything. IIRC someone back in vanilla retail actually farmed Dishonor Kills, I think 100,000+ of them, and their rep with major cities went down and down, but never went down any further than Unfriendly.

If it were up to me, DK's would actually have penalties associated with them, along with making it so that killing players more than 6 levels below you counts as a DK. Because honestly, having it only apply to NPCs is really dumb.

Some ideas could be:

-debuff that grants 2-5 times extra honor for an enemy player killing you; debuff persists until killed by another player
-DKs lowering your honor, perhaps setting your rank back by 30-50 HKs
-DKs causing certain NPCs to refuse service to you (vendors, flight masters, auction house, etc) for 30-60 minutes

Just...something really discourage ganking players who have no chance of fighting back.

Problem with players offering dhks is lvl 1 intentionally dying to AoE constantly when a raid is happening on a city

[Setup]

Recently, I decided to read through the original game manual. It was an enlightening experience, and it was interesting to see how much of the information was out of date. I believe it was an especially old copy, particularly because some things were from before the game's release. As an example, the old female troll model was shown on the race menu. One thing that caught my attention, however, was something I had never heard about: dishonor points. It seemed that at one time, they had planned to add dishonor points alongside honor points. This is quoted directly from my manual: "Even among enemies as bitter as the Horde and Alliance, there is honor. If you flaunt this honor and engage in objectionable PvP play, such as killing new players vastly inferior to you in level, or killing essential non-combat NPCs such as flight masters or quest givers, you will earn dishonor. If you accumulate enough dishonor through your criminal actions, you will be branded an outlaw. As a consequence, you'll suffer experience penalties, lose access to your own faction cities, and become so hated by even your own kind that every faction NPC will attack you on sight. World of Warcraft is forgiving of transgressions, however, and if you refrain from dishonorable actions for a long enough time, you will eventually return to favor with your faction and cast off your criminal label." Although I think a few of those penalties are a bit severe, it would have been a very intriguing system to have in the game. It may have also helped to prevent a lot of the griefing we have to deal with. What are your opinions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph

[Datruth]

What are your opinions?

It will never happen, so it's basically mental masturbation.

[Aethelwulf]

Back in early vanilla there was just one way to get Hated with your own faction iirc, and that was killing enemy flight path masters. One enterprising Rogue had to get his Hated status removed by GMs several times because he would kill enemy flight path masters, then kill his own faction's NPCs (flight paths, auction masters, bankers, etc.) once he was Hated.

[Eligius]

it didn't make it live as grey killing brought dishonor, and they didn't want people intentionally griefing

[gotmilk0112]

Problem with players offering dhks is lvl 1 intentionally dying to AoE constantly when a raid is happening on a city

...No? Level 1's can't even be flagged for PvP. At least, not automatically. You'd have to willingly flag yourself for PvP at level 1, in order for that to happen.

And lol, "city raids" happen like...once every few months. Not really often enough that anything like this would happen.

[Norjak]

It seemed that at one time, they had planned to add dishonor points alongside honor points. This is quoted directly from my manual: "Even among enemies as bitter as the Horde and Alliance, there is honor. If you flaunt this honor and engage in objectionable PvP play, such as killing new players vastly inferior to you in level, or killing essential non-combat NPCs such as flight masters or quest givers, you will earn dishonor.

There was such a thing on retail vanilla - you would lose honor if you killed an opposing NPC and "Dishonorable" would flash in red on the screen instead of the usual yellow text associated with an HK. I don't know how about consequences of this activity over an extended amount of time - but it did act as a deterrent to those actions for people who were grinding ranks, etc.

[bdan]

I remember farming dishonor on retail. I played ally on a pve server. We would go raid crossroads and kill all the quest givers and flight masters to make people flag up and fight us. Dishonor didn't really mean anything and a lot of people just wanted to see how high of a number they could get so they removed it.