PSA: Addons can get you banned.

[Roadblock]

Nah, you're trying to push this notion that it's so hard to differentiate benign vs malicious addon usage so "anything" can be deemed a bot, so "no Lua addon" should be deemed bannable.

If I make an addon X that has a hidden function to mail 20% of your gold to me anytime you interact with a mailbox is that ok because the API "allows" me to make it?

If I make an addon Y that makes you spew profanities in public channels while at the same time filtering them so you don't see them, to get you banned, is that ok because the API "allows" me to make it?

If I do model replacement that replaces stealthed player models in PvP with a big bullseye target or enlarges healer models is that ok because the vanilla client allows me to do it?

I can sit here and give examples of exploitative addon/mod usage all day long...
Addon authors (if an exploitative addon making the rounds can 100% be linked to them - I don't mean user edits) as well as addon users using said addon should get one warning then ban in my opinion.

I like how you focus on form rather than substance.
Is this a misguided free speech analogy of some kind?
"I disagree with you(r addon f***king me over) but I will defend to my last breath your right to (f**k me over) express your opinion" kind of thing for addons?

Discuss the substance not the formality.
It's not that hard.
What does the addon actually do?
If everyone was using it what is the result for the game?
Does the addon rely on victimizing a subset of the playerbase for benefiting another? (griefing)

I do believe that it shouldn't be handled on a completely adhoc base though.
Rather have a "report an addon" section on the forums where any player can submit link to an addon they perceive as malicious.
No GM response = safe.
GM response = don't use that > Use at your own peril.

I would gladly take down any of my addons that are flagged.

[Dreez]

let's discuss some borderline stuff:

an addon that registers spell events and defines whether a unit is currently casting
combined with a slash command that only interrupts the target if the targeted unit is casting

legal or not? if not legal, how would that be detectable?

let's continue:
registering all spell cast events of units surrounding you, combined with a slash command that on specific casts targets that unit and interrupts the spellcasting.
Bind it on every key (so that it is being spammed)

All of this is possible and is very close to the so called "scripting" which also is a bannable offense on retail.
Only possible through the vanilla API, however the gameplay itself it not actually automated

[Renew]

let's discuss some borderline stuff:

an addon that registers spell events and defines whether a unit is currently casting
combined with a slash command that only interrupts the target if the targeted unit is casting

legal or not? if not legal, how would that be detectable?

let's continue:
registering all spell cast events of units surrounding you, combined with a slash command that on specific casts targets that unit and interrupts the spellcasting.
Bind it on every key (so that it is being spammed)

All of this is possible and is very close to the so called "scripting" which also is a bannable offense on retail.
Only possible through the vanilla API, however the gameplay itself it not actually automated

why shouldnt this not be allowed? casting would be a protected function that you trigger with an keyboard input...

[Dreez]

why shouldnt this not be allowed? casting would be a protected function that you trigger with an keyboard input...

because the keyboard input is basically a spammed macro on every key in that case, esentially automating gameplay. You could literally smash your face on the keyboard and always interrupt the correct spells.

[Renew]

why shouldnt this not be allowed? casting would be a protected function that you trigger with an keyboard input...

because the keyboard input is basically a spammed macro on every key in that case, esentially automating gameplay. You could literally smash your face on the keyboard and always interrupt the correct spells.

its still a user input...not like you use AutoHotkey or something

atm many addons do that...Quickheal is the best example

[Dreez]

that's why I said it's borderline legit / not legit

it's a fact that you do automate gameplay by using what I described, however the game isn't fully automated

[Jeniwyn]

Nah, you're trying to push this notion that it's so hard to differentiate benign vs malicious addon usage so "anything" can be deemed a bot, so "no Lua addon" should be deemed bannable.

I'm just reading the rules. Just change program for addon or macro and you get.

Bot = Any addon or macro that allows the automated control of any feature or component of the game.

Malicious isn't part of the definition. I don't know where you got that from. If it was part of the definition then this problem would be somewhat reduced but that would create new problems since then a .exe that runs your char around in Ironforge for the lulz would be fine since it would be hard to point to a victim there.

Do you think that it isn't automatic if your addon reacts to something happening while you are away? Do you think that your buffs, the dialogue boxes for summons, group invites, loot rolls and resses aren't components of the game? LazyPig clearly falls under the definition of a bot according to these rules and that is a huge problem. It means that the rule as it exists today really isn't predictable. It is only predictable as far as you trust the good judgement of the GMs when it comes to sharing your opinion on each action and their understanding of what is going on with your addon that they do not have access to on their end.

Addons automate a lot of small components of the game, hence saying that the anti-3rd party clause of the ToU now also apply to the API is just unworkable. If they are going to go down the in my opinion horrible route of policing addons they at least need to make a new segment of the ToU designed specifically to deal with it in a predictable manner. Unlike with external programs and physical contraptions where you want sweeping rules, you would instead need targeted specific rules. Such as "an addon may not buy an item from the auctionhouse after having reloaded the same page X times since the last physical input". Where X has to be reasonably high in order to not apply to normal AH addons in corner cases, 4-5 should be good enough to virtually never apply to a normal addon (I'd still wan't my addons to have built-in counters to avoid breaking the rule by mistake though) and it would absolutely destroy afk sniping addons. Why so complicated? Because addons automating stuff is what they do, you need to be very specific about what you aren't allowing or you will end up making stuff against the rules that you never intended to make against the rules and enforcement becomes arbitrary.

If I make an addon X that has a hidden function to mail 20% of your gold to me anytime you interact with a mailbox is that ok because the API "allows" me to make it?
If I make an addon Y that makes you spew profanities in public channels while at the same time filtering them so you don't see them, to get you banned, is that ok because the API "allows" me to make it?

Scamming, spamming, harassment, lying to a GM etc are against the terms of use regardless how you do it.

If something isn't ok to do manually, it isn't ok to do it via addon. There is zero need for any additional rules in order to handle these situations. The only issue here is if scripting with the API is botting.

If I do model replacement that replaces stealthed player models in PvP with a big bullseye target or enlarges healer models is that ok because the vanilla client allows me to do it?

You cannot do that with the vanilla API. That would require modifications to the client or the MPQ files. Neither of those are things that you are allowed to do. That would earn you a permanent ban for hacking. Further, this isn't botting.

I can sit here and give examples of exploitative addon/mod usage all day long...

You obviously cannot. You haven't provided a single workable example. You just think you have. 10, 100 or 1000 bad examples do not add up to a good one.

The only example I know of is actually the Neutral AH sniping addons. And that is really only a problem because players want to use it for something that isn't realistically the intent for it. If the intent was that players should be able to transfer stuff between their alliance and horde chars, they would simply have allowed mail. (And any text would ofc just get changed to "kek duk'zug" etc.) The only reason that this is seen as an issue is that addons are better at reacting and buying the stuff that shouldn't be there so cheap in the first place.

[Roadblock]

Did it cross your mind that maybe I don't want to give "better" examples because some players have shown very poor judgement on what should and shouldn't be in the game?
(and not all of them are Lua-illiterate)

[Jeniwyn]

You will have to excuse me for being thoroughly unimpressed by you first listing three examples that don't even apply to the situation at hand and then claiming to have good examples that you conveniently cannot divulge.

[Roadblock]

You will have to excuse me for being thoroughly unimpressed by you first listing three examples that don't even apply to the situation at hand and then claiming to have good examples that you conveniently cannot divulge.

You know what, you win.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, chalk one up to my lack of debating skills

I think I can spend my time more productively (definitely more enjoyable) playing or coding addons.
I'll say that I agree with the action on part of GMs so I guess this server policies cater more to my preference?
Life can be unfair like that.