Banned

[exto]

G'day,

Since the other thread was locked for discussion, I had to make a new one - apologies for the spam.

vrlol's thread, I just had a couple of questions. His account was permanently banned for using a keyboard macro to attach lures, while he was fishing. He wasn't using an automated program to bot, or to fish fully automated. He was clicking on all splashes, opening the clams, rearranging his inventory, etc etc. A whisper sent to him would have confirmed he was actually there.. Can your logs look at this?

Is it possible to review this ban? A lifetime ban for using a macro to re-attach lures, when the terms of use only state that using an outside program to automate or bot is bannable seems a bit harsh. This seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding, and a complete ban after a lot of hours have been spent on that account, and time invested into supporting the community; only to be banned for an offence he did not realise was actually bannable.

A warning not to use said macro, or a ban for day or so to make sure he understands the consequences seems more appropriate, I'm just struggling to understand the reasoning behind the lifetime ban.

Kind regards,

Exto

[Tyrael]

Greetings exto,

The offense was manually confirmed by a GM.

Regards,
GM Team.

[exto]

Thankyou for your response.

I disagree with your conclusion, and the penalty applied, but I understand your decision. It is most unfortunate.

Regards,

Exto

[Xethra]

Tyrael,

I am probably biased on this situation since Vort was a part of our guild, but I feel like it would be a disservice to him, our guild, and the PVE server as a whole if I don't at least fight for his re-reinstatement.

I have spoken to you personally about individuals who have been bad for the Nostalrius community, and I can tell you that from my experience playing with Vort, he is the complete opposite. He is incredibly beneficial to the community not only for his personality but his willingness to go out of his way to help other people. Some of that includes running multiple instances that he does not need just to help other guild members, giving away free materials to help better other players, and even lending gold to players to help get their mounts to better their playing experience. Along with all that, I think he has been one of the most active persons on the PVE server since launch, helping grow the economy in many ways. He's played triple the amount that I have played, so the number of players that he's helped I'm sure is substantial.

I'm not saying what Vort did was not against the TOU, because it states "any form or component of automation". He automated applying lures to his fishing pole. That's 3 seconds of the overall fishing process every 10 minutes (give or take depending the type of lure). As Exto stated, he did not automate casting or clicking the lure in the water, he did not automate looting, he did not automate opening clams and re-arranging his inventory.

In an earlier post you stated "automated the overall fishing process" but you seem to have edited it to "Botting" as a whole. Unless he is simply lying to his friends, which does not sound like him at all given his personality, he did not automate the overall fishing process. So the punishment (in my opinion) is too extreme given the crime. He even openly admitted to you exactly what he did in his previous post at "viewtopic.php?f=65&t=27337"

From my point of view, the currently conclusion is like giving him a life sentence in prison for a speeding ticket. Ban him for a day or even a week, and I can guarantee he and whoever else was fishing in a similar manner will never do so again. However, I feel a lifetime ban in this case is too extreme. This may or may not change your mind on the outcome of this, but I really hope it does. Losing Vort is a loss to the Horde PVE community as a whole and I feel obligated to try to help him.

Respectfully,

Xethra

[Dreez]

this isn't retail where you get away with almost everything just because they get money from you

however those keyboard macros were also bannable on retail:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1772567980#10
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=2#25

unfortunately the rules apply to everyone equally, you're going to be treated the same way as a gold-seller who's only botting. In my opinion a flaw of the system but difficult to work around since there's no absolutely fair solution.

[Glenzig]

If they unban him, how many other accounts do they have to unban? How many people will try to run automated programs for various other reasons that will clearly gain an unfair advantage and expect the same treatment? If they don't take a firm stance on things like botting, hacking, and buying/selling gold, then this project will go downhill fast.

[Xethra]

As I stated earlier the outcome may not change, but I must at least try. You would do the same if he was your friend or guild member. The outcome may not change, but at least I can say I did everything I could. It's up the the GM's in the end.

Also, unless my interpretation is incorrect, the TOU is not a zero tolerance policy. Based off it stating "may suspend or close any account" the punishments are up to GM's judgement of the situation.

Nostalrius staff may suspend or close any account if you violate, or assist others in violating, the sections set forth below. You agree that you will not, in whole or in part or under any circumstances, do the following.
Use, offer, advertise and/or distribute the following or assist there in:

B. Bots; including, but not limited to, any code, hardware and/or software that allows the automated control of the Game, or any feature or component thereof.

[Nathrizyr]

Greetings,

All bans for botting are permanent, this is how it always has been and it is how this particular sanction will stay. Yes, the terms of use says that we, as staff, "may suspend or close" any account, but botting falls under section V of sanctions: permanent ban. We make no discrimination between players, and this is important to keep the system as fair as possible. You can have 5 hours played or 10 months; you can bot for two minutes or two days. However, in the end the sanction that all of those cases receive is the same if we investigate and find a positive: a permanent ban for botting. We simply cannot start to lower punishments now for people's character (which imo is pretty difficult to tell on an online game) or because they weren't botting to an "industrial" extent.

TL;DR All bans for botting are permanent, and this case will be no different.

Regards, GM Team

[Xethra]

Thank you for your response and clarification on the TOU, Nathrizyr. I understand and respect the decisions of the GM staff. I had to at least be able to say I tried though. I will not make anymore posts on the matter.

Respectfully,

Xethra