Why didn't I get banned for mining in Silithus?

[Datruth]

Are you implying this is the first time the staff thinks they have fixed something, just to find out it wasn't fixed after all? They already said it wasn't due to timers/locations, so there are literally no other option than the mobs.

Time will tell on that, but most times when they've said they've applied a fix, it does actually change something. I still think they may have randomized the spawn times, judging by the specific ban message text.

My theory is that what was bannable was this: Rogue creates a pattern of nodes, and with knowledge of the locations, the 45 minute spawn timer, and some time, captures all in that path. Then arrives at each next node knowing the spawn time. And does this for 12 hours a day, hitting hundreds of nodes in a week. Three parts to this: fixed spawn time, fixed locations, and 'industrial' levels of time.

But there is at least one person saying they were banned and they literally only spent a couple of hours mining there. If they are telling the truth, there might have been some other exploit that I don't know of.

So if the spawn times are still 45 minutes, it would heavily imply that there was something else.

The spawn timer of 45 min is correct, however the locations is one of the reasons(I said that wasn't the cause before, but after reading through GM response I noticed they only said timers), and I'm convinced that the mobs not aggroing is another reason.

I can't prove or disprove those people who claim they only did it for a very short timespan is lying, but people still lie shamelessly in attempts to try to get bans revoked so it's their word vs a GMs. Guess who is gonna win that one

[Mopar]

The spawn timer of 45 min is correct, however the locations is one of the reasons(I said that wasn't the cause before, but after reading through GM response I noticed they only said timers), and I'm convinced that the mobs not aggroing is another reason.

I can't prove or disprove those people who claim they only did it for a very short timespan is lying, but people still lie shamelessly in attempts to try to get bans revoked so it's their word vs a GMs. Guess who is gonna win that one

Yes for sure - i've read every ban thread since server launch (it's what I read with my morning coffee! ) I do this because I'm extremely careful of what I do to make sure I am never banned. Most of the time in those threads you can tell the person is lying to try to get unbanned.

But there are cases where the GMs made a mistake and reversed the ban, and more frequently where the cheat detect systems generated false positives and they reversed it. But they've never reversed a mass ban like this however.

There are also cases where the person's story is very plausible, likely even. You loan someone gold, and some time later, they pay you back with that amount. Only - they bought the gold they paid you back with. They get banned, and so do you for gold trafficking. Trying to prove you didn't buy gold in that case is nearly impossible, and you end up with a banned account. For that exact reason, i never loan or borrow gold from anyone, and I'm careful on the AH.

My paranoia about this is why I'm so vocal on the topic.

[Diametra]

Banned for mining
by nonsense » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:31 pm

Greetings. My account was banned for mining. I've used my rogue to mine for quite some time now. The exact reason for my ban is - "Silithus: Ooze Covered Rich Thorium Vein respawn time exploit".
**************************************
Re: Banned for mining
by Daemon » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:58 pm

Hi,

It is indeed a bug. The respawn pattern should not be deterministic. When a vein despawns, it may, or may not respawn afterwards, or another vein may respawn somewhere else.
You could not predict exactly when/where a vein would spawn on retail.

If there are other nodes bugged (mining or herbs), it is an exploit and it needs to be reported on the bugtracker.

Daemon.
**************************************************

by Voltog » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:24 pm

The ban was regarding an exploit which was abused on a "industrial level" which really means they abused it alot and intentionally, the wording could have been abit better.

And no the ban is not due to the spawn time of the nodes.

Best regards, GM team.

****************************************************

The Ban says they were banned for exploiting the respawn times.
Dev Daemon says the "bug" is the respawn time/location.
Later on a GM says it's not the respawn time that is being abused.

Man you can parse this shit anyway you want and evangelize your beliefs anyway you want. But me, Im going to read what was written and believe what the dev said and what the ban message says. It was how the nodes themselves respawn. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you want to get really fucking technical about what is written here then you have to LOGICALLY come to the conclusion, by process of elimination, that it's just the spawn location that is the particular bug.

The wise man will read everything above and just discount what the GM said and believe what the Dev said.

You could make up some shit about the fact that jet fuel can't melt steel beams or you could believe what your eyes are telling you.

And for chrissake...I didn't play in vanilla...so I obviously didn't mine in vanilla just like who knows how many other people here? If the mobs around some veins are all messed up and I can't aggro them, I don't fucking know it should be otherwise. I wouldn't be alt tabing out to read through some dusy old tomes to see if this shouldn't be some other way. No. What I'm probably doing is shitting my pants because I'm nervous I'm going to aggro these mobs.

I, like Im sure 99.9% of the other people here, came here to play a game, not to be a fucking Wolrd of Warcraft historian.

[Ohr]

The only steel beams that need to be melted are the bars surrounding the accounts of the people who didn't mine on "an industrial level"

[Datruth]

The spawn timer of 45 min is correct, however the locations is one of the reasons(I said that wasn't the cause before, but after reading through GM response I noticed they only said timers), and I'm convinced that the mobs not aggroing is another reason.

I can't prove or disprove those people who claim they only did it for a very short timespan is lying, but people still lie shamelessly in attempts to try to get bans revoked so it's their word vs a GMs. Guess who is gonna win that one

Yes for sure - i've read every ban thread since server launch (it's what I read with my morning coffee! ) I do this because I'm extremely careful of what I do to make sure I am never banned. Most of the time in those threads you can tell the person is lying to try to get unbanned.

But there are cases where the GMs made a mistake and reversed the ban, and more frequently where the cheat detect systems generated false positives and they reversed it. But they've never reversed a mass ban like this however.

There are also cases where the person's story is very plausible, likely even. You loan someone gold, and some time later, they pay you back with that amount. Only - they bought the gold they paid you back with. They get banned, and so do you for gold trafficking. Trying to prove you didn't buy gold in that case is nearly impossible, and you end up with a banned account. For that exact reason, i never loan or borrow gold from anyone, and I'm careful on the AH.

My paranoia about this is why I'm so vocal on the topic.

Alright so you know the vast majority of these threads are the usual "My brother played" and other bullshit excuses, and you know like 99% of their bans are perma. I'm not gonna argue if that is a fair way of doing it or not, that is just the way they choose to run the server, and I can come up with logical arguments both for and against it. So people just gotta accept that is the way the server is managed.

when you keep those facts in mind, I think it's safe to say that it's on your own risk if you mine at a place that seems buggy without asking a GM first. Since the Silithus nodes was the only ones that spawned in the same spot everytime and because of the mob bug, anyone should be able to tell that it's not working as intended.

PS. The people getting wrongfully banned for gold trading was early on in the servers life, and they all got unbanned again afaik. Me and my friends have loaned each other 33-200g a ton of times without a problem, so there is no need to be paranoid. Unless maybe if you trade like above 500g to lvl1 bank alts and such, I haven't tried that

[Xylon666Darkstar]

I like gold and Arcane Crystals. I am happy me and my Arcanite industry were not wrongfully banned.

[Mopar]

Alright so you know the vast majority of these threads are the usual "My brother played" and other bullshit excuses, and you know like 99% of their bans are perma. I'm not gonna argue if that is a fair way of doing it or not, that is just the way they choose to run the server, and I can come up with logical arguments both for and against it. So people just gotta accept that is the way the server is managed.

when you keep those facts in mind, I think it's safe to say that it's on your own risk if you mine at a place that seems buggy without asking a GM first. Since the Silithus nodes was the only ones that spawned in the same spot everytime and because of the mob bug, anyone should be able to tell that it's not working as intended.

PS. The people getting wrongfully banned for gold trading was early on in the servers life, and they all got unbanned again afaik. Me and my friends have loaned each other 33-200g a ton of times without a problem, so there is no need to be paranoid. Unless maybe if you trade like above 500g to lvl1 bank alts and such, I haven't tried that

The Silithus mines have never seemed buggy. They seemed perfectly fine, and that's the problem. They act the same today as they did last week, except that the spawns seem more random.

Regarding your PS., the most recent unban for a false gold trafficking ban was 4 days ago.
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=21256
The system flags the accounts for large gold transactions, and sometimes false positives result in invalid bans. Hopefully the GMs have a 100% success rate in correctly resolving these.

[Datruth]

Alright so you know the vast majority of these threads are the usual "My brother played" and other bullshit excuses, and you know like 99% of their bans are perma. I'm not gonna argue if that is a fair way of doing it or not, that is just the way they choose to run the server, and I can come up with logical arguments both for and against it. So people just gotta accept that is the way the server is managed.

when you keep those facts in mind, I think it's safe to say that it's on your own risk if you mine at a place that seems buggy without asking a GM first. Since the Silithus nodes was the only ones that spawned in the same spot everytime and because of the mob bug, anyone should be able to tell that it's not working as intended.

PS. The people getting wrongfully banned for gold trading was early on in the servers life, and they all got unbanned again afaik. Me and my friends have loaned each other 33-200g a ton of times without a problem, so there is no need to be paranoid. Unless maybe if you trade like above 500g to lvl1 bank alts and such, I haven't tried that

The Silithus mines have never seemed buggy. They seemed perfectly fine, and that's the problem. They act the same today as they did last week, except that the spawns seem more random.

Regarding your PS., the most recent unban for a false gold trafficking ban was 4 days ago.
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=21256
The system flags the accounts for large gold transactions, and sometimes false positives result in invalid bans. Hopefully the GMs have a 100% success rate in correctly resolving these.

"Fixed spawn locations" is the bug apparently, and that is what triggered the bans according to GMs. Knowing exactly when and where nodes spawn is a massive advantage, so if you get the timer on all of them then you can easily control them all, which kinda explains why people did those 14h farm marathons on them because they managed to get the timers. The same thing happened early on with black lotuses, their spawns were fixed, so few people had control of the timers and managed to gather 200+ lotuses in relatively short periods of time. I'm sure anyone who did this on an "industrial level" would atleast have an idea about this being a bug, especially the ones who have been around long enough to know about the whole black lotus situation and how that panned out.

Yea that dude sounds rich, so he was probably sending way more than the 33-200g I was talking about.
Seems like they have a certain gold limit cap where transactions may trigger a false positive if they go above. Luckily they seem to get the false positive cases fixed relatively quickly though.

[Bluefear]

"Fixed spawn locations" is the bug apparently, and that is what triggered the bans according to GMs. Knowing exactly when and where nodes spawn is a massive advantage, so if you get the timer on all of them then you can easily control them all, which kinda explains why people did those 14h farm marathons on them because they managed to get the timers.

I would literally sit at my computer for hours on end with a stopwatch app keeping track of every node timer. It was not uncommon for me to hit every single one of the 23 nodes in a 45 minute period, the second they respawned, multiple times during my farming sessions. No ban for me though, so I must have done something different

[Thompz]

"Fixed spawn locations" is the bug apparently, and that is what triggered the bans according to GMs. Knowing exactly when and where nodes spawn is a massive advantage, so if you get the timer on all of them then you can easily control them all, which kinda explains why people did those 14h farm marathons on them because they managed to get the timers.

I would literally sit at my computer for hours on end with a stopwatch app keeping track of every node timer. It was not uncommon for me to hit every single one of the 23 nodes in a 45 minute period, the second they respawned, multiple times during my farming sessions. No ban for me though, so I must have done something different

I know for a fact since they are logged in online in Silithus like 24/7 some people in some of the top guilds have been doing this and haven't received a ban, so I think they just cherry picked.