Unorthodox specs accepted?

[Corazon]

But seriously, you wouldn't bring an enh to add windfury to melee? Also, 1 moonkin in caster group = +3% crit, and insect swarm, -2% hit on enemies, that sounds like a good deal to me. Seems to me all the dps the hybrids aren't doing is going into making other dps do more damage.

Having a few hybrids might not make the boss die faster, but if they properly utilize what they have, they'll likely make the whole fight alot smoother.

[Magnifican]

time spent offhealing as a hybrid is even less dps than you will be doing. Your healers should be able to handle the healing.

Well, seeing as retpallies got nothing to do for a few sec other than waiting for that next autoattack why not throw a cleanse or heal to help? This is possible without loosing dps as post previously stated. Now obviously a cat wouldnt go out of catform to throw some heals since that would lose dps, but again, dps is not the most important thing for hybrids in vanilla, they werent designed that way, and you seem still being to stuck in the holy trinity that dps need to dps only, where hybrids ofc never does as much (which leaves you to think they are inferior). Again, in TBC they changed hybrids to fit more into the holy trinity with the specs given to them, they became viable dps dealers on their own in 25-raids, where as in the 40-man they were there to do alittle of everything, like enable others to do even more dps (boomkin, enh sham, spriest etc). This was obviously blizzards intend, flawed as it may have been.
Hell i've seen raids clear MC with 25 people, that says something about how effective and far the community has come in theorycrafting and everything to max out the potential in every raid. So what if the other 15 people use odd specs, its obviously doable and rather easy tbh, we shall see some real challange come AQ and Naxx (where ironically these specs become somewhat more viable).

As far as I know you would not. I don't remember the exact debuffs but im pretty sure its curse of recklessness for the reduced armor, faerie fire for reduced armor, sunder for reduced armor and threat, demo shout for reduced damage. Those im 99% sure of. Also taunt and probably curse of ele.

Thanks for this! Reduced armor seem to get prio over other debuffs such as increased spelldamage then huh? Seems very melee focused debuffing. I guess I can see that being more important that shadow damage buff only for locks and spriests.

I did see a shadow priest raiding on the PvP server but that was after they triple checked that MC never changed and one shotted everything. She was also a girl though so. You just gotta find a cool guild leader.

Thank god for the cool girls and them I presume "girly" boyz then that let poor hybrids come along! lol.. Also after they "triple checked" and "one shotted everything" does not exactly say much.

You might not get into the guild that clears MC/ONY 2 weeks after server release but why would you want to?

No I obviously dont care for that. Im a casual raider and I enjoy my time leveling and eventually gearing up (which will take some extra time for some hybrids) and do some raiding in a fun and relaxed enviroment.

But seriously, you wouldn't bring an enh to add windfury to melee? Also, 1 moonkin in caster group = +3% crit, and insect swarm, -2% hit on enemies, that sounds like a good deal to me. Seems to me all the dps the hybrids aren't doing is going into making other dps do more damage.

Having a few hybrids might not make the boss die faster, but if they properly utilize what they have, they'll likely make the whole fight alot smoother.

Exactly my point! This was what blizzard designed and intended them to do in vanilla.

[Viorus]

I love this thread. SO much awesome. The only reason people hate on other people's spec's is their immaturity and low IQ.

[Sethzer]

Will guilds accept these players? When does experience over ride optimization?

Think that's up to the individual guild what they want to accept in terms of spec.

[Amelissan]

So why noone still didn't step in for the project i've mentioned before?

Why 40-50 ppl just take initiative and form a guild just for this?

I mean it would be a win-win scenario;

a) conventional players that are seeking adventure with the realization of majority of the vanilla content is far from being challenging thus this sort of raiding concept would give them the opportunity of seeing what they are really made of.

b) unconventional players that are willing to go tryhard mode to be able to raid with their own specs.

I am willing to join such an elite (and hippie lol) community with my hunter (type 'a' player) as long as we are talkin from the horde side of the equation.

What would our lost be? There are no raid that not being stepped in..no achievements not completed before.

If we fail we bail, if we wont.. well we can brag about this till got banned..

[BoxerBriefly]

I'm surprised this thread is still around, I thought this was a fairly cut and dry issue. Ah well, that's the internet for you.

[Corazon]

If I get around to making a Boomkin (I'm going rogue first) I'd be willing to make/join a "misfit" guild for offspecs and see how it goes.

[Magnifican]

If I get around to making a Boomkin (I'm going rogue first) I'd be willing to make/join a "misfit" guild for offspecs and see how it goes.

Making a guild full of only "offspecs" or whatever you call it is ridiculous. Obviously a raid still needs mages, rogues, warrior tanks, priest healers etc. Having 40 people with "odd/wrong/off" specs running around wont work out very well and no one said it would. The whole question is about whether hybrids work well in conjunction with others in a 40 man raid, whether they bring something to the table and can be of benifit for the group, which they obviously do and has been pointed out many examples. The only issue I see here is that some people still cant wrap their heads around anything but the holy trinity concept post-vanilla where you only do one thing and if you cant do it as well as the "pure ones" you apparently play "wrong", should not get invited and are even selfish for playing the class you enjoy. Oh, and that they constantly have to keep telling you how bad and wrong and retard and noob you are for doing it.

[Coreborn]

Many of the so called unorthodox specs are support,
and their usefulness depends on the gear of the people in the raid.

If all have noob gear, than a feral druid and boomkin can be helpful,
to support the melee and caster group.

If all have uber gear, than a shadow priest and enhancement shaman is useful,
to support the warlocks and fury warriors. If they have only ok gear, than you
might be better of with a mage and a rogue.

But it requires the player to understand what support is and how to play them.
If you join a raid as an enhancement shaman to do damage, than your
doing it wrong. And this is why most guild will play it safe. A good support
can make a good group better, but can also break a raid groups efficiency.

Most normal guilds will not use them. The competitive HC guilds will,
but to play as one it will require you to have pre-experience as one.

[Rarfoster]

This thread is awesome, and it is nice to see the tables turn on the number worshipers.

I remember back at BC launch there was a lot of discussion about going to 25 man raids and not everyone was keen to drop the controlled chaos that was 40 man. When WotLK was about to launch, there were a bunch of players asking for 40 man to be included. In one forum post, I remember someone arguing that all you really needed was 25 players to do 40 man content, and if Blizz scaled it up to require the full 40, it would be 40 Naxx all over again.

The point is Vanilla was designed to have these unorthodox builds. Like a lot of you, I played retail vanilla. Back then, people were stupid. Most players were playing a MMO for the first time, for some it was their first PC game. These "elitist" ideals were necessary to separate the good from the bad, at least partially anyhow. Next was running content with them, understanding their skill/knowledge and helping them step into the world of theorycrafting.

After 10 years, numerous private servers and the modernization of L2P, Vanilla WoW has been dissected in ways the 2 year period of Retail Vanilla, or any X-pac, could ever allow. Regardless of the core/balance differences, it has now been widely accepted that Unorthodox builds are welcome even in top tier raiding guilds, if only in small numbers, and of course only after certain patches.

This is nothing new, most of this has already been stated in this thread.

The point is, unless a guild is involved in the progression race, there is no reason to not allowed a reasonable number of the unorthodox specs. Yes, people have the free choice to run the raid as they please. But putting unnecessarily limitations just makes you look like an ass. Or oblivious. Unless you are running a raid during prime server time, you might be at the mercy of picking up whomever just for bodies. Especially with the 2500 population cap. You can run a tight ship all you want, hoping to make the run as smooth as possible, but being considered closed-minded and a tryhard is on you.

There is nothing wrong with trying to emulate top tier guilds, min-maxing and trying to be as efficient as possible. But compared to 10 years ago, the social stigma is against the "elite" minded now. More people know how to play, and a lot have been apart of the "elite" and have the experience to be given credibility.

Take a chance on your unorthodox-yet-skilled players. You might be surpsied.