Unorthodox specs accepted?

[bowdacious]

If 40 people want to RUSH their way to their nerd meccah go ahead. If wiping is such a blow to their ego obviously they need to make it as easy as possible.

I wish you good luck in Naxx where it becomes mandatory to have the best setup possibru, but anyway most of us won't see it if it's retail like anyways.

Lol... Do you think naxx was hard? Did you play this game for most of its expansions anyway?

You see, naxx was not hard. Players were bad, had few external resources (no youtube videos showing you how to do the boss), poor addons, and again players were bad at the game. The hardest things you find in vanilla are spreading and not standing on the fire. Me and my friends used to think living bomb was hard in molten core, we thought running away from the group when debuffed was hard...

Wow got harder, not easier... The last tier I raided was highmaul, and imperator mythic makes nax 60 so simple you might as well call it tetris. Naxx is very well scripter on the old vanilla server and people used to pug it there.
Good luck pugging more than the first 2 bosses in mythic in any tier nowadays

[Magnifican]

You see, naxx was not hard. Players were bad, had few external resources (no youtube videos showing you how to do the boss), poor addons, and again players were bad at the game. The hardest things you find in vanilla are spreading and not standing on the fire. Me and my friends used to think living bomb was hard in molten core, we thought running away from the group when debuffed was hard...

Not to mention that the main reason guilds never entered or progressed in naxx wasnt because it was hard per se, with mechanics etc, but because it had high gearcheck. And the fact that it was released for a very short time before TBC hit, so with little time to gear up only the most hardcore guilds from AQ had the gear required to enter and progress through naxx... On private servers this wont be the case and naxx will be a faceroll after awhile, and definitly doable with all sorts of specs, which other private servers for example have shown countless of times. People have this nostalgic illusion of vanilla naxx that just isnt true at all. There were alot of reasons why only 0.2% of the playerbase cleared it, being the hardest raid isnt one of them.

Wow got harder, not easier... The last tier I raided was highmaul, and imperator mythic makes nax 60 so simple you might as well call it tetris. Naxx is very well scripter on the old vanilla server and people used to pug it there.
Good luck pugging more than the first 2 bosses in mythic in any tier nowadays

So true. Vanilla wow was brutal and unforgiving in a whole other sense (timeconsuming) more than content being difficult in terms of mechanics. People complain wow got easy and dumbed down, but what wow really did was become more accessable for all and less timeconsuming and more convenient ways to get there. Welfare epics, catch-up mechanics, faster leveling, faster travel, more bagspace, less clutter items, higher item stacks, more bank space, more graveyards, lower heartstone CD, etc etc etc. But mythic raiding is still 10 times harder/more complex than anything vanilla had to throw at us.
I think retail is terrible in alot of ways, its so easy to get to endgame they might as well just impliment instant level 100 and be done with it, they trivialized everything that is "old content" - its all about rush to endgame. Then there isnt enough endgame to do so we are stuck with the same raid for 1 year in 3 expansions now, gg blizz..

Sorry about that rant and offtopic - point is: vanilla is not hard, "odd specs" should be perfectly fine. If you want complex raids go play retail

[Orthodoxy]

You see, naxx was not hard. Players were bad, had few external resources (no youtube videos showing you how to do the boss), poor addons, and again players were bad at the game. The hardest things you find in vanilla are spreading and not standing on the fire. Me and my friends used to think living bomb was hard in molten core, we thought running away from the group when debuffed was hard...

Not to mention that the main reason guilds never entered or progressed in naxx wasnt because it was hard per se, with mechanics etc, but because it had high gearcheck. And the fact that it was released for a very short time before TBC hit, so with little time to gear up only the most hardcore guilds from AQ had the gear required to enter and progress through naxx... On private servers this wont be the case and naxx will be a faceroll after awhile, and definitly doable with all sorts of specs, which other private servers for example have shown countless of times. People have this nostalgic illusion of vanilla naxx that just isnt true at all. There were alot of reasons why only 0.2% of the playerbase cleared it, being the hardest raid isnt one of them.

Wow got harder, not easier... The last tier I raided was highmaul, and imperator mythic makes nax 60 so simple you might as well call it tetris. Naxx is very well scripter on the old vanilla server and people used to pug it there.
Good luck pugging more than the first 2 bosses in mythic in any tier nowadays

So true. Vanilla wow was brutal and unforgiving in a whole other sense (timeconsuming) more than content being difficult in terms of mechanics. People complain wow got easy and dumbed down, but what wow really did was become more accessable for all and less timeconsuming and more convenient ways to get there. Welfare epics, catch-up mechanics, faster leveling, faster travel, more bagspace, less clutter items, higher item stacks, more bank space, more graveyards, lower heartstone CD, etc etc etc. But mythic raiding is still 10 times harder/more complex than anything vanilla had to throw at us.
I think retail is terrible in alot of ways, its so easy to get to endgame they might as well just impliment instant level 100 and be done with it, they trivialized everything that is "old content" - its all about rush to endgame. Then there isnt enough endgame to do so we are stuck with the same raid for 1 year in 3 expansions now, gg blizz..

Sorry about that rant and offtopic - point is: vanilla is not hard, "odd specs" should be perfectly fine. If you want complex raids go play retail

Nothing you said justifies bringing subpar specs to raid over the tons of people willing to roll with viable ones. Can Naxx be done with elemental shamans and ret Paladins? Possibly. The question isn't can it be done, the question is why should it. None of the walls of text you have posted addresses this question.

[Theloras]

Nothing you said justifies bringing subpar specs to raid over the tons of people willing to roll with viable ones. Can Naxx be done with elemental shamans and ret Paladins? Possibly. The question isn't can it be done, the question is why should it. None of the walls of text you have posted addresses this question.

you made me laugh yet again

[Syphonize]

Nothing you said justifies bringing subpar specs to raid over the tons of people willing to roll with viable ones. Can Naxx be done with elemental shamans and ret Paladins? Possibly. The question isn't can it be done, the question is why should it. None of the walls of text you have posted addresses this question.

Because it's fun to do so. I just read this thread. Thankfully there are some people here who haven't forgotten the real challenge in Vanilla raiding was ensuring you had 40 happy raiders who were motivated for long periods of time to log on week after week, not 40 raiders forced to play the "correct spec". If playing a Moonkin makes your raider happy and motivated to stay active for months and months, you are successful.

[Magnifican]

Nothing you said justifies bringing subpar specs to raid over the tons of people willing to roll with viable ones. Can Naxx be done with elemental shamans and ret Paladins? Possibly. The question isn't can it be done, the question is why should it. None of the walls of text you have posted addresses this question.

You mean besides the fact that it's a game (essentially entertainment) and that some people enjoy playing elemental shaman and ret paladin and shouldnt be forced into a role or class they dont enjoy? If it can be done, why shouldnt it be perfectly fine to do that? Personally im very drawn to ret pally design back then because they had the seal juggling and Cons as core skills instead of silly holy power like on retail as well as complex gearing and mana management so you use different ranks etc (for me thats alot more fun than spamming shadowbolt and lifetap when mana gets low, its feels boring as F).

I agree that my posts obviously doesnt show you that somehow bringing a hybrid makes your raid dps go higher, and that is not my point with my posts. I only wish to challange the narrowminded and elitist mindset that ruins the game for other people because they happen to enjoy playing a "wrong" class/spec and at the same time wants to experience raid content but cant because of people like u (its not that easy to level alts in vanilla, so you pick a class you enjoy first and foremost to invest in). Then because of this they either lose loot prio, or they dont get invited to raids at all, or they might even get straight out kicked from a guild for "playing wrong". Thats just sad... cant u try to see the point we are makin here?

I realise that im basically repeating myself here so I think im done with this thread. But its been a fun discussion and it seems there are still hope for us hybrids after all.

[Theloras]

Nothing you said justifies bringing subpar specs to raid over the tons of people willing to roll with viable ones. Can Naxx be done with elemental shamans and ret Paladins? Possibly. The question isn't can it be done, the question is why should it. None of the walls of text you have posted addresses this question.

Because it's fun to do so. I just read this thread. Thankfully there are some people here who haven't forgotten the real challenge in Vanilla raiding was ensuring you had 40 happy raiders who were motivated for long periods of time to log on week after week, not 40 raiders forced to play the "correct spec". If playing a Moonkin makes your raider happy and motivated to stay active for months and months, you are successful.

^^^this post is full of win^^^

[bowdacious]

I think as long as you don't expect to get priority over the "strong" dps classes on rings/trinkets/cloak/wep you should be allowed to raid on whatever spec you like. The only issue here is that some people don't really understand minmaxing, they want to roll on that trinket even though there is a warrior in their group who does literally twice their damage and should normally get it. Not because he is "better", but because it helps the raid more for their next progress fight.

I have played enh back in tbc in a semi hardcore guild and things were alright back then. I never expected to get my off set items before rogues but I did get them eventually. You can always have items from BWL as a ret pally if your guild is now doing AQ 40 then you can get AQ items once the warriors don't need them.

Vanilla was not hard, it was hardcore, there is a difference... You had to play a lot but the game mechanics were easy as hell, just people were not used to playing it. You can down any 40 men raid with 35 (I'm being generous here, it's probably less) it's not a problem if you have people on non meta specs here and there.

[Mistral]

I think as long as you don't expect to get priority over the "strong" dps classes on rings/trinkets/cloak/wep you should be allowed to raid on whatever spec you like. The only issue here is that some people don't really understand minmaxing, they want to roll on that trinket even though there is a warrior in their group who does literally twice their damage and should normally get it. Not because he is "better", but because it helps the raid more for their next progress fight.

I have played enh back in tbc in a semi hardcore guild and things were alright back then. I never expected to get my off set items before rogues but I did get them eventually. You can always have items from BWL as a ret pally if your guild is now doing AQ 40 then you can get AQ items once the warriors don't need them.

Vanilla was not hard, it was hardcore, there is a difference... You had to play a lot but the game mechanics were easy as hell, just people were not used to playing it. You can down any 40 men raid with 35 (I'm being generous here, it's probably less) it's not a problem if you have people on non meta specs here and there.

Any real offspec players should agree with this. Being allowed to play a weird spec should be enough of a reward. Getting low priority on gear is no problem.

Although on the other hand there are few certain pieces that weird specs should get priority on.
For example Crown of Destruction from Ragnaros is the pretty much the only hat a Enha shaman could ever get in a very long time. Hunters have easy tier 2.

There are probably others for druids and pallies but that is for another time.

[wallan]

The raiding content is not hard and having 3-7 people not speccing according to the book won't make any noticable differences really, especially around MC. I'm going to spec my hunter in a slightly unorthodox way, but heck, maybe I lose like 20 dps maybe less, big deal. I certainly hope I'll have guild mates with different approaches to the game, makes it nothing but more interesting to me.