Yet again.

[Trollhorst]

Apparently to be not toxic you need to have little confidence in your players and settle who you feel should have Kazzak by a dice roll.

Sorry we refused to play like cowards with a dice roll when we knew we had the numerical advantage as well as the player skill advantage to get the kill anyway.

This is called natural selection, either adapt to compete or forever stay behind. This isn't WoD where you have an LFR option if you're not up to snuff to do it.

Basically saying: If you have the bigger numbers, you can do whatever you want? That's not toxic at all.

There were several Alliance guilds (including mine) who would have been easily able to kill Kazzak if it werent for your griefing with lvl 1 Chars / naked chars. And don't tell me you weren't griefing since you had like a whole bunch of naked people just standing there and waiting for the boss to drop under 50% to mess up the kill, everyone saw it. Guess the GMs wont do anything about it, but that doesn't make you any less a bunch of, and I just quote, "cunts".

[Cornelius]

So uh, basically boys. There's a reason all other Horde guilds have cut contact with the multiboxing players of Deja Vu, you know. Because they phase lined Azuregos, which hasn't been admitted or denied by XJ9 in all his glory. Either way, I'd take it up with the leaders of the guild, but they're well. Not worth the time to reason with, like feral animals that need to be put down. Even now, I read XJ9's posts and all I can think is euthanasia. Best of luck to Horde-side dealing with that coagulation of utter degenerates.

[Duofilm]

So uh, basically boys. There's a reason all other Horde guilds have cut contact with the multiboxing players of Deja Vu, you know. Because they phase lined Azuregos, which hasn't been admitted or denied by XJ9 in all his glory. Either way, I'd take it up with the leaders of the guild, but they're well. Not worth the time to reason with, like feral animals that need to be put down. Even now, I read XJ9's posts and all I can think is euthanasia. Best of luck to Horde-side dealing with that coagulation of utter degenerates.

Only, other horde guilds don't cut contact with us actually. Its not because a hand full of players spread false rumors about us that everyone is dumb enough to believe the shit going on. We didn't want to roll for a world boss and really no one can blame us for that. There are no rules on those things world bosses are in the game to be contested over. XJ9 says alot of things, and he knows '(since we told him)' that the things he says are not always supported by the guild or the leaders of Deja vu. He says things cause those are his personal views on it.

Me & Ace have always been the type of leaders ready for a conversation. If someone wants to talk with us about the events of yesterday then they are free to do so. We are not as you put it "Feral animals that need to be put down". Seeing as this is the first post i've placed here proofs that. Forgive us for not reacting on a forum full of shit posts about things that may or may not happend. If ppl care about the situation give us a whisper in game or join us on our TS. I don't mind having a civilized conversation about it other then most of the shit posters here that don't actually know what they are posting all this for except for the fact they didn't get the kill.

As for the Azuregos kite... there is tons of videos on the internet where Azuregos got kited to orgrimmar. I will repeat we did NOT know he would despawn. Hell we didn't even know there was a phase line there!

To finish I'd like to invite everyone who has troubles with us again to whisper me or Ace to discuss this. Posting shit in 3 different forum posts about things like this is plainly childish and that goes for everyone doing so.

Duo

[Cornelius]

Yeah, thanks for the reply, and showing me XJ9 doesn't represent your guild. Despite his signature, he's the most active lurker on the these forums, so the confusion can be made. Either way, I don't care, genuinely. I'm just annoyed you lot aren't being punished for abusing bugs, and multi-boxing.

Yes, you can feign innocence, but it doesn't mean you didn't still make those mistakes, or purposely abuse, whichever you want to pick. It doesn't matter though, because the world boss kills don't -really- matter until the items updates, when all the good stuff's added.

So hopefully you guys will either have shed your excess faeces, or become more degenerate that I thought was possible. Best of luck to you all in BWL and shit, though. You can't really do much to fuck other people off there, I suppose. Well, we'll see.

[Duofilm]

Yeah, thanks for the reply, and showing me XJ9 doesn't represent your guild. Despite his signature, he's the most active lurker on the these forums, so the confusion can be made. Either way, I don't care, genuinely. I'm just annoyed you lot aren't being punished for abusing bugs, and multi-boxing.

Punished for things we either didn't do? Or didn't know about? And if members did do it, we weren't aware of it. Also the level 1 chars running in for all I know that could be anyone. But you won't probably won't believe me anyway. I'm also annoyed that alliance don't get punished for their battle chicken abusing to pvp flag ppl. But I don't go around making shit ton of posts about it on the forum.

Yes, you can feign innocence, but it doesn't mean you didn't still make those mistakes, or purposely abuse, whichever you want to pick. It doesn't matter though, because the world boss kills don't -really- matter until the items updates, when all the good stuff's added.

I will admit to you right here where everyone can see this, YES we tried to kite Azuregos to Orgrimmar. NO we did not despawn him on purpose cause we didn't know about the phase line. I believe mistakes & purposely abusing are 2 entire different things.

So hopefully you guys will either have shed your excess faeces, or become more degenerate that I thought was possible. Best of luck to you all in BWL and shit, though. You can't really do much to fuck other people off there, I suppose. Well, we'll see.

Thanks, I hope ppl will doped all their salt by then as well.

[Dxilence]

All these lovely threads (Butthurt people to the left&right). I find it funny how people stated that they could camp the boss longer because they were us guilds etc. Less then 2 hour in both Horde & Alliance guilds starts to discuss about rolling for the boss in an attempt to be able to get a kill from DejaVu.


I don't really understand how anyone in the world would think that DejaVu would ever roll for a boss when they had like 2 raids at the boss that was ready to camp him for a long time. If you know you can contest a boss you don't give it away.

I also like how everyone puts themself into a position to say DejaVu are scumbags and that themself would be some kinds of Saints. First group that died on Kazzak failed the kill. Most people around actually wiped them.
Second tag was made by dejavu apperently, so when most people claim that they wiped people attemped to get a kill and "had" a raid that "had" the ability to kill the boss and would let people have the kill if someone else had the tag is such BULLSHIT.

Everyone knows that any guild that would have a larger presence, and had the capacity to camp the boss for a longer time would obviously not give away an free kill to a guild which is completely random to them.

Using level one chars or going in dying as 60 is not an offense. Also you can log inbetween chars, just because there is a level one doesn't mean that it's "multiboxing", then someone bring Azuregos etc which they claimed they didn't know about which is true since you used to be able to do that. Kinda funny how one one sits and point out people like "Lemuria" who force tag people with battle chickens etc or that during one of the Azuregos attempts one of the Alliance guilds tried to kite the boss back to that "phaseline" which at this time I assume We all know about now.


In the end I assume DejaVu would rather keep getting bosses killed for themself (Like any other guild that strives to be doing good in PvE) which is their goal, instead of giving them away as charity beacause people can't put in the effort. Don't have the time? then go back to retail and have more options.

[Oigomal]

everything was fine

/Alliance

[Wiseh]

Getting some serious mixed messages from Deja Vu leadership in these threads here.

Being available and open to discussion yet handwaving any dissenting opinion as inherently childish and worthy of being silenced?

Let's let opinions stand or fall on their own merit, shall we?

With this said:

- Traitors? World bosses are free-for-all, that's a given. Agreements and pacts are only between those that want to respect them. But you don't get to throw around accusations of being traitors when you actively sabotaged the only other serious hordeside attempt at taking down Kazzak.
By all means, you didn't have to help Goon Squad or anything. I don't regard you as traitors for what you did, but I'm going to remind you that if you put guild pride above faction pride, playing the traitor card afterwards is hypocritical.
Or perhaps you are fine with a horde kill only if it's a Deja Vu kill? In that case, third faction indeed.

- Cooperation isn't a sign of weakness. Allies have at the very least twice as many raiding guilds as us, it would be stupid of them not to cooperate and have pacts and whatnot. This is where paradoxically having lower pop helps us for now, but what does it say about our future if teamwork is seen as shameful? Is the delirious vitriol I read around here just from a vocal minority? I sure hope so but at this point I don't know anymore. Bad Acid said it best on his post.

- Is it only the result that matters, not the execution?
Let's take for example the Azuregos kills. The first one boiled down to whoever tagged him first. The second one was that whole phasing line fiasco, where it can't be proved whether you truly knew you would end up denying him in an exploity way. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on that; I want to give you that. And the staff is giving that to you too, regardless if they want or not, because they have to, as staff.

The third one, now the third Azuregos kill was great. Hunters kiting and juggling aggro, opposite faction dragging thunderclapping giants to them to slow them down, groups forming to take down the giants.
That thinking on the spot, that creative use of the surroundings, that spontaneous teamwork, lots of pvp going around. That was fun and engaging. That's how world boss fights should be.
Can't help but think that this kind of event do suffer from being on a pve server, but it still doesn't mean we can't make them fun.

Kazzak... Kazzak now is a different beast. We could argue the whole day whether his mechanics are made to be taken advantage of with lvl 1 alts. As we could argue the whole day whether those alts were on the same account or totally your 'brother' on his account that shares the same connection. Multiboxing is an issue for the GMs to weigh in if they think it's the case.

Legit strategy? Probably, for the most part. Cheap? Sadly yes. Unfun? You betcha.

You can choose to keep flattering yourself thinking people are just jealous, but you do a disservice to yourself if you refuse to see how a cheap strategy made the game unfun for everybody.

People will adapt, and when you'll fail to bring in those oh-so-prized results you seem to sacrifice everything for, the rhetoric of stronk guild who need no friends will be even more cringeworthy than already is, in hindsight.

[Jaedan]

You know... reading this entire forum thread here I see a lot of different views on how things were handled. Most have some validity others are just out right idiotic. To address some of the few things said here, in regards to multi-boxing.. we did not at all. What happened was if the alliance attempted the boss we would log off our mains sign on the level 1s and attempt to grief. We would do so by waiting till Kazzak got around roughly 70% then we would engage to heal him up to full. That's part of the game folks. Theres nothing wrong with doing that. We even talked to GMs prior to doing so to ensure it wasn't a bannable offense. As much as people want to sit here and say we are exploiters and cheaters and packet sniffers or w.e else is just so beyond stupid. Also one other thing I would like to address is speaking from Me and Mandosz I guess is that in vanilla we came from very high end guilds. I was in one called Hazardous and Mandosz was in Blood Legion which i'm sure most of you know who they are (not trying to sound boastful) . We took some of the things we learned and decided to apply them here on Nostalrius. One of them being that having a dominant presence and social atmosphere is KEY. In doing so, inviting socials and developing an active community is awesome. With the drastic increase in numbers we run 3 onyxias and 2 molten cores weekly. A lot of horde guilds think we "hog" all the players for ourselves. But that is not really the case. Pretty much everyone in our guild that wants to raid and can make our times does indeed raid. If you don't have the "gift of gab" and are unable to recruit or take members away from our guild than that is your own problem not ours. We cant have sympathy for you guys.. Think about it folks, if ANY of you were in our position and had the guild size that we do you would not roll off for a world boss kill. You would all do the same thing we are doing...


PS: Talking with some of the alliance leaders such as Grassmonkey and Pizza and a few others from Odyssey seem like real cool legit dudes. I spoke with many of you and hope no hard feelings were had. You all seemed cool enough by it and would I would like to continue our civility moving forward. <3

Jaedan

[XJ9]

Yeah, thanks for the reply, and showing me XJ9 doesn't represent your guild. Despite his signature, he's the most active lurker on the these forums, so the confusion can be made.

The fact that my forum name drastically differs from my in game name should have been obvious. There's a specific reason I don't use my character name on forums, because I'm well aware of what I say and how people like you will take that as reason to harass my guild. Kind of like the kids who threaten to tell your parents that you were mean to them. How about instead of sitting here badmouthing me because of what I say you actually try to debate it with ME? We're fucking adults here I'd like to believe. Though given some of your responses eeeeeehhhhh.

Either way, I don't care, genuinely. I'm just annoyed you lot aren't being punished for abusing bugs, and multi-boxing.

Abuse by definition implies prior knowledge of the outcome. Kiting it into Orgrimmar over a phase line causing it despawn was not known. There are many videos regarding Azuregos being INSIDE Orgrimmar. Should stand to reason we figured the same could happen and were just as shocked when he despawned.

Logging off, onto a new account isn't multiboxing. It isn't as if we kept multiple WoW tabs open, I personally logged off, onto my alt (On the same account even!) then logged back to my main to do the same process. That isn't multiboxing. Having two characters is not multiboxing. Throw whatever hostile buzzwords you want, it doesn't make your case any stronger when you have no real case to begin with.

Yes, you can feign innocence, but it doesn't mean you didn't still make those mistakes, or purposely abuse, whichever you want to pick. It doesn't matter though, because the world boss kills don't -really- matter until the items updates, when all the good stuff's added.

Fang of the Mystics, Puissant Cape, Unmelting Ice Girdle are all very good items compared to what is available. Though I must ask, if these bosses don't matter, why do guilds find the need to contest our guild for them, and subsequently bitch on the forums when we get them?

So hopefully you guys will either have shed your excess faeces, or become more degenerate that I thought was possible. Best of luck to you all in BWL and shit, though. You can't really do much to fuck other people off there, I suppose. Well, we'll see.

This was completely an unnecessary addition and it was clearly written with the sole purpose of getting in a few childish swings at the guild. Congrats, you're now on par with people who hide behind not being pvp flagged and spamming /spit and /rude to people.