Unorthodox specs accepted?

[Orthodoxy]

Well for days i was thinking about posting a topic just about this issue but fearing the incoming hate, i got discouraged..

I had an idea about a guild that letting oddballs / misfits in its raid group, i am not talking about a raid team that full of ''fun'' specs, but i really do believe that every single raid (maybe not naxx) can be completed with 30 out of 40 conventional specced characters and 10 oomkin, ret/prot pala , enh/ele shamm etc.

Considering the game is now 10 years old we can expect for such a player ( that a player know the responsibilities of playing a gimped toon and in the knowledge of he/she must go tryhard mode and farm twice more than its more accepted counterpart ) will be much more useful than a slacking geared pure class..at least much less annoying, and already studied his/her boss well.

I mean we all know or already experienced that among 40 ppl, there are always 5 to 10 ppl that are intentionally slow or geared with half of a brain. And still being carried by the rest of the team.

I know there will some ragings by the wanna-be-veterans '' durr! Vanilla is hardcore m'kay !!1!1!!? ''..

But face it and swallow it; Vanilla is far from being considered as a hard game..mechanics are mainly straight-forward; get out of of the fire, kill the adds, decurse/dispell, and of course MOAR DOTS! 9/10 bosses or encounters can be completed by monkeys even and the last boss of this era is known inside out by the players even there is a good 1 year before the release.

Also there is a human factor, call me naive but i believe that an oomkin or an enh sham will focus much more to the game than playing as a resto, and for sure will be having much more fun, thus less drama.

There is much more to be written but this post has already evolved into a wall thus ill cut it now.

tl;dr, I think server needs at least 1 guild for each faction raiding with space chickens shooting lasers 'n shit. You want a hard game? That's how you get a hard game.

ok.. you may crucify me now..

Side-note: No i have no interest on any of the before mentioned specs so this post does not serve ant selfish purposes.

So, a few points to address here...

First off, if you make your own guild you can do what you want for sure - but the thread is about the desirability of non-standard specs, presumably involving a person applying to a high end raiding guild.

There are two problems you are going to run into with this idea though. The first one is that you will have to draw a line somewhere and force at least half your players into "standard" specs to carry your underperforming tryhards through anything past MC. This will create drama over who gets to be a special snowflake and who has to work harder in their real spec in order to carry them. Guilds require people to spec correctly not because they like to rain on your parade, it's because at he end of the day people want to kill bosses without wiping because the prot paladin got crushed. You will end up in the same position, requiring certain people in your raid to spec standard while unfairly allowing others to go boomkin etc.

Second, I hear this whole "Vanilla is so easy" trope passed around a lot by alt speccers - but I have yet to see one who has Nef down. This is only the second raid, and guys farming MC/Ony and nothing else are going on endlessly about how easy everything is. Sure, it actually is probably much easier than the first time around, but half the reason it is way easier is because THEORYCRAFTING was worked out in subsequent expansions. If you choose to ignore the THEORYCRAFTING that gives modern players a significant advantage, you might as well be back in 2005. I played vanilla the first time around and I don't remember us fumbling around not knowing which buttons to click (because of course nobody had discovered keybinds!) - I remember lots of questions revolving around gearing choices, stat comparisons, and the value of specific talents.

[Larsen]

Guilds want people who care about doing well. If a player chooses to play balance druid or whatever, that's not a good first impression in that regard. It's not that you can't raid with a spec like that, it's that players choosing those specs are less likely to care heavily about their own performance. There are players for whom that's not the case, but on average, someone choosing to play a weak spec is someone who isn't tryhard, and guilds rightfully want tryhards. They won't be very eager to recruit someone who knowingly chose a bad spec.

[Amelissan]

It was the main idea behind founding a guild that giving chance to players that investing enough and showing diligence for raiding with the build they want.

I really don't get why people getting angry (not even upset) when hearing the idea of raiding with out of line specs..

Again it would be a project more than a serious raiding guild. (BWL is competitve raiding nowadays i guess)

And as i stated in my post i have no intention to raid with any of those specs but i am also willing to raid along them even it means that i have to wipe in MC countless times (which i doubt ) yet alone clearing BWL.

And your snowflake argument (nowadays this word became so popular..odd) do you really accept any conventional spec to your raids/groups without any gear checks or questions asked? There will be always some qualifications and requirements to be meet, so it wont be a problem to decide who will raid or who won't; the one who deserves to join will be welcomed in to the raid.

And really you think that theorycrafting and min-maxing is vital to raid past MC? Hmm.. ok then.

Still this was an idea and anyone out there is willing to lead such a guild i would be more than happy to join and ''carry'' the weak along.

[Mauda]

Guilds want people who care about doing well. If a player chooses to play balance druid or whatever, that's not a good first impression in that regard. It's not that you can't raid with a spec like that, it's that players choosing those specs are less likely to care heavily about their own performance. There are players for whom that's not the case, but on average, someone choosing to play a weak spec is someone who isn't tryhard, and guilds rightfully want tryhards. They won't be very eager to recruit someone who knowingly chose a bad spec.

You are assuming too much, as there's also an argument for, that a player will have to try harder. To calculate an average requires statistics. I'd like to see those to back up that claim, as my personal experience is different from yours.

But then again. Not every guild will be competing for server first cutting edge progression - which makes it a moot point.

[Bad Acid]

Amelissan, I don't see anyone being really angry about people wanting to choose subpar raiding builds. We're calmly saying that not only is it not fair for optimal built players who need to put more effort to carry others, but it's unfair to blame guilds for wanting clean and fast progress. As I said before, nobody would mind if someone created a guild that doesn't hold those standards. Just don't expect everyone to welcome hybrid builds because just like you have a choice, so does everyone else. Making a guild is almost free, it doesn't cost you anything but time to try and make one yourself and do it your way.

Also, if you had a BWL geared enh shammy and you could outdps (without going OOM or whatever) rogues and mages, I doubt guilds that just started MC would discard you just because of your build choice. I don't really understand your gearcheck arguement.

[Amelissan]

Amelissan, I don't see anyone being really angry about people wanting to choose subpar raiding builds. We're calmly saying that not only is it not fair for optimal built players who need to put more effort to carry others, but it's unfair to blame guilds for wanting clean and fast progress. As I said before, nobody would mind if someone created a guild that doesn't hold those standards. Just don't expect everyone to welcome hybrid builds because just like you have a choice, so does everyone else. Making a guild is almost free, it doesn't cost you anything but time to try and make one yourself and do it your way.

Also, if you had a BWL geared enh shammy and you could outdps (without going OOM or whatever) rogues and mages, I doubt guilds that just started MC would discard you just because of your build choice. I don't really understand your gearcheck arguement.

I was not only talking about this topic but refering the general attidute. Anyways my point was the community needs a guild just for trying this out. Maybe some experienced raid leaders out there willing to undergo such a task, and would love to be there just out of curiousity and for challenge..

It would be fun imho.

[joshbpepper]

When I lay down and look up at the sky I think who cares? This version of the game isn't going to be around forever so why not?. Im not suggesting bring the whole rainbow 10 fold, but why not 1-2 specs diff specs?

But Hey, if you wanna be hardcore and pretend its 2004 go ahead. You probably don't even enjoy raiding. You just wanna get it over with. Missionary every night. No ass slappin hair pullin. Nothing, just clean and dry.

[Bad Acid]

Lmao Josh all the assumptions. Just because people don't want to waste time babysitting you through raids doesn't mean they're not enjoying themselves, both in and out of WoW

[joshbpepper]

Im not going to be raiding. What and be owned like cattle by some fuckin guy?

[Bad Acid]

Do whatever you want bro, just don't shit on other peoples choices