Hall of Fame discussion.

[Xethra]

Please use this thread to discuss the Hall of Fame, not the PVE progression thread. Pottu has already said it is to be used to report progression, and that's it.

Greetings,

remember that this thread is only for reporting raid progression on the PvE server. Please do not spam it with any other stuff - make a new thread for that.

The GM team.

[Xethra]

This is purely my opinion. This is NOT the opinion of my guild as a whole.

The Hall of Fame is and should be more than any one person's opinion. It should be something the server as a whole can come to terms with and agree on. That being said, both sides of the argument are perfectly valid. If I was a part of a Faction first kill, and couldn't take credit for it, I would be upset as well. However, there is a very distinct separation between Server Firsts and Guild Progression.

Let's look at the PVP server for example. Snowflakes has done a great job and creating a disparity between the two.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21598

There are two different categories. Server First Hall of Fame, and Guild Progression. This would be the progression if we were to follow what the PVP server uses. I think this is the correct way of doing things, but this is my opinion. The server as a whole needs to agree on what route we want to take with the server progression and Hall of Fame

THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY, THIS IS NOT THE PROGRESSION THREAD

Hall of Fame

Molten Core

Lucifron: Lotus Storm (H: Goon Squad)
Magmadar: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Gehennas: Goon Squad(A: Lotus Storm)
Garr: Lotus Storm (H: Goon Squad)
Baron Geddon: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Shazzrah: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Sulfuron Harbringer: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Golemagg the Incinerator: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Majordomo Executus: Lotus Storm (H: Goon Squad)
Ragnaros: Lotus Storm (H: Alliance between Chocolate Milk and Video Games)

Onyxia's Lair

Onyxia: Lotus Storm (H:Goon Squad)

Guild Progress

Alliance

Lotus Storm - Molten Core 10/10 & Onyxia 1/1

Horde

Goon Squad - Molten Core 9/10 & Onyxia 1/1
Reign of Chaos - Molten Core 6/10 & Onyxia 0/1
Chocolate Milk - Molten Core 0/10 & Onyxia 0/1
Video Games - Molten Core 0/10 & Onyxia 0/1




THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY, THIS IS NOT THE PROGRESSION THREAD

[Mittens]

This is purely my opinion. This is NOT the opinion of my guild as a whole.

The Hall of Fame is and should be more than any one person's opinion. It should be something the server as a whole can come to terms with and agree on. That being said, both sides of the argument are perfectly valid. If I was a part of a Faction first kill, and couldn't take credit for it, I would be upset as well. However, there is a very distinct separation between Server Firsts and Guild Progression.

Let's look at the PVP server for example. Snowflakes has done a great job and creating a disparity between the two.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21598

There are two different categories. Server First Hall of Fame, and Guild Progression. This would be the progression if we were to follow what the PVP server uses. I think this is the correct way of doing things, but this is my opinion. The server as a whole needs to agree on what route we want to take with the server progression and Hall of Fame

THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY

Hall of Fame

Molten Core

Lucifron: Lotus Storm (H: Goon Squad)
Magmadar: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Gehennas: Goon Squad(A: Lotus Storm)
Garr: Lotus Storm (H: Goon Squad)
Baron Geddon: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Shazzrah: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Sulfuron Harbringer: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Golemagg the Incinerator: Goon Squad (A: Lotus Storm)
Majordomo Executus: Lotus Storm (H: Goon Squad)
Ragnaros: Lotus Storm (H: PUG[Chocolate Milk and Video Games])

Onyxia's Lair

Onyxia: Lotus Storm (H:Goon Squad)

Guild Progress

Alliance

Lotus Storm - Molten Core 10/10 & Onyxia 1/1

Horde

Goon Squad - Molten Core 9/10 & Onyxia 1/1
Reign of Chaos - Molten Core 6/10 & Onyxia 0/1
Chocolate Milk - Molten Core 0/10 & Onyxia 0/1
Video Games - Molten Core 0/10 & Onyxia 0/1




THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY

Think this would be the best approach to do it. Wouldn't agree in just calling it a PUG though since it's clearly two guilds that made an alliance to raid. Leaving them out of the Hall of Fame would end up making it a bit of a joke.

[Xethra]

Think this would be the best approach to do it. Wouldn't agree in just calling it a PUG though since it's clearly two guilds that made an alliance to raid. Leaving them out of the Hall of Fame would end up making it a bit of a joke.

Fixed.

[Beadman]

This post has given an interesting perspective on the issue which I think highlights why this is so difficult to resolve and also proposes a solution to how it ought to be fixed.

The problem with this whole debacle is that both sides have too many valid points for their to be a correct side. You are proposing that the solution to this issue to copy the format of the PvP realm and you argue that Chocolate Milk + Video Games work should be counted to them in the Hall of Fame. The more I mull over this in my mind the more it makes logical sense. It actually makes more sense to put this joint raid into the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame should not be exclusive to "Guild Raids" it should accurately show which groups got first kill on both factions. Obviously the easiest way to record that would be with a short guild name as opposed to every member who was apart of the group but a joint raid between two guilds is short enough for it to make sense.

I think copying the format of the PVP server makes logical sense as it gives some authority to why the system is constructed in the way it is.

[Mustard]

Nice edit Bead & Xethra, looks gr8

[QuaRk]

I guess the new system in the guild progression thread will cover most of the bases - it seems satisfactory.

By the way (and correct me if I'm wrong!):
Don't you have to rename GS' group on the Server First and Opposing First on Gehennas and Lucifron to JR(<Goon Squad> + friends) or something along those lines, as GS admittedly didn't go in with a guild-only group in Goon Squad vs Molten Core(4995)? Or what was the verdict on that? Am I misreading some of these tables/timestamps/logs?

And is anyone on the Alliance side keeping Lotus Storm honest in terms of raid roster? Or are we just going by trust here? It's a bit awkward that Alliance seemingly only has one raiding guild.

[Xethra]

I guess the new system in the guild progression thread will cover most of the bases - it seems satisfactory.

By the way (and correct me if I'm wrong!):
Don't you have to rename GS' group on the Server First and Opposing First on Gehennas and Lucifron to JR(<Goon Squad> + randoms) or something along those lines, as GS admittedly didn't go in with a guild-only group in Goon Squad vs Molten Core(4995)? Or what was the verdict on that one? Doesn't this mean that GS didn't down Gehennas and Lucifron as a guild until Goon Squad vs Molten Core(568) this sunday past, when MC had reset? Or am I misreading some of these tables/timestamps/logs?

EDIT:
As well as a JR(<Goon Squad> + randoms(?)) --- 2/10 & 0/1 to the guild list, as an equivalent to the JR of CM and VG?

Is anyone on the Alliance side keeping Lotus Storm honest in terms of raid roster? Or are we just going by trust here?

I think goal of this was to give CM and VG legitimate credit for their Horde First while still maintaining a fair system to other guilds. What you're suggesting is merely being knit picky and is not very constructive to the overall purpose of the thread. If you were the one controlling this thread 2 months down the road, would you want to have to put in every single PUG as legimate progression? Absolutely not. So lets stop being critical just to be critical.

As far as Alliance progression, I did read that Threshold killed Gehennas. I'm not sure if it was with any PUGs or not with them, because nothing has been posted on the progression forums and no screenshots were posted.

[QuaRk]

Yeah. I already edited my post before you posted yours. I agree that it's counter-productive to pollute the guild list itself with every irrelevant variation and constellation of guilds and randoms, which is one of the weaknesses remaining in the system we now have chosen, I guess. But the HoF should probably reflect GS' JR for those two bosses, as we made a point of doing so with the JR of MC and VG, and it's hardly irrelevant in regards to the HoF.

[Xethra]

Deleted.