Progression and balance... "technical hurdles"????

[Winterflaw]

I'd like to see change in game mechanics, but I worry of course about the risk of changing damaging the game.

I'd like to see change in the client. I like the cartoony graphics, but I'd like to see them offering more character customization - LoneStar style face generation, for example, not just the same half dozen faces.

I'd like to see non-game-mechanic changes in the client - for example, I'd like to see improvements in the Auction House. I'd like to be able to have orderings by price be for the whole set of an item for sale, not just the current page; I'd like to be able to filter more (only show auctions for full packs of cloth, to avoid the people who post pages and pages of one cloth for sale).

Most importantly and fundamentally, I'd like to see changes in the economy and the items NPCs sell. Vendors basically are useless to buy from - they almost never sell anything worthwhile, and when they do, it's crazy money. I'd like to see the economy become genuinely meaningful - which means, for example, NPCs only buying stuff they can actually then sell at a profit to other players (so for one part of this, they'd buy anything to begin with, but if they have some in stock, they won't buy it any more).

I'd like to see better player crafting, too. Rather than the fixed set of greens and blues, allow players (e.g. blacksmiths for weapons) generate a budget for an item, where that budget comes from the value and rareness of the materials used and the skill of the BS, and then decide himself how that budget is spent on bonuses (which of course are not just +n stat, but also procs), so he actually designs a custom weapon.

This would also create a market for player crafted goods - right now, almost all player receipes are not worth making.

I want to see ring crafting, too, since it's missing - everything else can be crafted. None of this jewel rubbish though; that's different. An item already by itself allows any stats or procs, so jewels (as I understand them - I never played retail with jewels) add nothing new. Rings however are a item which currently is only available through drops. It seems odd players can craft most things, but just not rings.

Also, I'd like to see players be able to craft mundane items, like vials. You'd need mats, but you could make them, so you could sell them - all good for the player economy and the creation of wealth.

[callumhutchy]

^^Winterflaw has got the idea

We want Vanilla back because of the path Blizz have decided to go down with the current game.
The people who are stuck in their ways and just want to play Vanilla 'as it was' are not good for the development of legacy servers, those people should just go get their nostalgia fix from a private server and continue with their lives.

Say Legacy/Vanilla servers are released, would you want the game to start from version 1.0.0 and release the same updates they did at the same pace? That seems crazy why would you leave bugs in the game that we know in 3 months they'll have a fix for. I can understand releasing actual content (Raids) at set intervals to allow for progression, but the point of these new servers is to take the core Vanilla experience and improve upon with this extra decade experience.

What happens when the last Vanilla content is released on the server? I can't imagine people are going to stick around for long, so there needs to be new content added to keep the players entertained. The system that is currently used in Old School Runescape is a very good one, allowing the players who pay for the game to decide what exactly they play. Whether this content is the next expansion (TBC, WotLK, etc) or new content designed specifically for the legacy servers, (although most likely to be the former) there will be changes to legacy servers so that the game is still fresh.

The changes that Winterflaw proposes above sound really good and will help create a thriving community if people can depend on each other for different goods, much like IRL. I do not believe that changing the core mechanics of Vanilla is a good idea, but bug fixes and class balances are a part of any game.

We have to imagine Legacy servers as it's own game entirely and the devs have to think that too.

[r00ty]

We want Vanilla back because of the path Blizz have decided to go down with the current game.
The people who are stuck in their ways and just want to play Vanilla 'as it was' are not good for the development of legacy servers, those people should just go get their nostalgia fix from a private server and continue with their lives.

I don't think there's any reason to change the game itself. So, that is the rules that were around at the time should be faithfully reproduced, including but not limited to:

Talent trees, including the older bad talents

Class balance (good and bad)

XP rates

Itemization

Quest difficulty

Old maps, old quests, old NPCs

Race/Class limitations

PvP character creation limitations

Older versions of instance and BG maps

Only specifically bugs should be fixed. I reckon they could implement the above (and anything I forgot) into the current client with some work. That way bugs would be resolved, latest anti cheat used by Blizzard applied. Blizzard wouldn't need to support special client and server code, and wouldn't need to support a different set of GM tools etc.

That's my personal idea of what they should be. You made yours clear. Winterflaw made his idea clear and I'm sure someone will come along and state they don't want it incorporated into the current client and will make their idea of how things should be.

Ultimately if we get anything at all - we won't really get much say in what it is

[Winterflaw]

If you're like sodapoppin and whoever else and want all that shit on a legacy server, THIS PRODUCT IS NOT FOR YOU. Please go away and leave it for the people it's intended for. Go play retail.

If person A says to person B, I want what I want, and this isn't for you, therefore you go away, can't person B equally well say that to person A?

This is, mmm, ah - dogma. *THIS IS TRUE* therefore X Y Z.

A point of view can be justified by arguments and you present one or two, but this in particular isn't an argument.

[greath555]

ppl actualy dont understand the meanign of LEGACY. legacy servers mean that you recreate the state of the game as it was.

you ppl that want changes dont actualy want legacy servers....

you want WOW 2.0

[greath555]

If you're like sodapoppin and whoever else and want all that shit on a legacy server, THIS PRODUCT IS NOT FOR YOU. Please go away and leave it for the people it's intended for. Go play retail.

If person A says to person B, I want what I want, and this isn't for you, therefore you go away, can't person B equally well say that to person A?

This is, mmm, ah - dogma. *THIS IS TRUE* therefore X Y Z.

A point of view can be justified by arguments and you present one or two, but this in particular isn't an argument.

legacy server mean that you recreate the state of an older version of wow as it was back then.

ppl that want changes dont actual want vanilla. you guys want WOW 2.0