Guild Bank account? [GM ruling?]

[lockpower]

I have a question about a Guild Bank account.

First off, it is not shared as that would be against ToS, I just want to get clarification about how I can safely access the account without it being banned. Some might say, well it's pretty clear, but when your guild puts time and effort into collecting mats, you want to take every precaution.

From previous GM posts, I have a pretty good idea of what is and is not allowed, but they did say that The following rules are not meant to be exhaustive

Multiboxing refers to playing multiple characters simultaneously. This can either be achieved by using multiple machines to run the Game or by running multiple instances of the Game. The following rules are not meant to be exhaustive, and using multiple characters to level, farm reputation, run dungeons, do raids and/or engage in PVP is considered Multiboxing. Each case of Multiboxing will be judged individually and thoroughly. There are a few specific situations where you may have two characters in-game simultaneously, *only while both characters are in a major city*:

Transferring items between accounts;
Using professions, as long as no farming or material gathering is involved;
Crafting, enchanting, banking and/or for trading purposes that does not include the Auction House.
Portalling a second account only to and from major cities.
Playing simultaneously on both PvP and PvE realms. *Not restricted to major cities*

Today Pottu answered a somewhat similar post about someone who was warned about multiboxing:

To be 100% safe, completely exit the client - waiting the 20 seconds for your character to log out if not in an inn, then log in your other account. If you have two accounts online at the same time, you cannot excuse yourself with "I was just switching toons". Accept the 20 seconds of time wasted and avoid getting a warning or a ban.

The GM team.

Basically I want to know, if someone says "Hey, do we have any 'x' in the bank?" can I fire up a second instance of the game and hop on (bank is kept exclusively Orgrimar) and check the contents of the bank? Or do I need to stop what I am doing, and log out, every time someone wants to know what's in the bank?

Not sure if this is acceptable or not. At first glance, it would appear probably not, but the fact that it said the rules were not exhaustive leads me to believe that the spirit of the rules was meant to prevent abuses such as farming, botting, power leveling, etc... and NOT meant to prevent players from accessing their bank contents and information.

I feel that the reason the original writing was written like that was to prevent the excuses of "Oh, I didn't know I couldn't bring my bank around the world with me, and no I'm not leveling him, just using him as bag space as that would clearly give an advantage over other players.

With this in mind, is it ok to log into two accounts for banking purposes as long as the bank alt is kept within the boundaries of the capital city (Bank, mailbox area)? and the other account is basically left idle while banking is in progress?

Also, if anyone knows of an addon that can track and/or upload bank inventory into an excel sheet, that would also help with this issue.

Thanks for your consideration and answer either way.

[Nelythia]

You have to either be with both accounts in the same major city OR log one account offline and log into the other one.

[lockpower]

You have to either be with both accounts in the same major city OR log one account offline and log into the other one.

I understand that is what the rules state. However, the reason I ask this was that "he following rules are not meant to be exhaustive." ie: what we say below is not a fully comprehensive list of rules. The other part regards the spirt of the law (in our case, rule.) When one obeys the spirit of the law but not the letter, one is doing what the authors of the law intended, though not necessarily adhering to the literal wording.

If you read the whole rule they listed, everything they said was to prevent abuse and botting, while they allowed you to be in the city because you could not bot or abuse the system. Therefore, it appears the spirit of the rule was meant to prevent abuses such as farming, botting, power leveling, etc... and NOT meant to prevent players from accessing their bank contents and information.

Once again, that is why I wanted a GM to answer this so that we could end the debate once and for all.

Thank you for your input though.

[Nelythia]

They don't make this rule to prevent specifically Botting or Farming with Multiboxing.

Imagine if Multiboxing would be legal, which it ever was on Retail because monthly money for Bli$$ard, you don't pay for anything on Nostalrius, you can have up to 6 accounts and all of them cost 0$.

Lets say now you have players that Multibox for leveling their second accounts, which would be understandable at some point, but would have significant consequences.

For example, we take 12k players peak times on Nostalrius PvP.

50% of them would now Multibox, since it would be legal.

Instead of around 12k actual players, you would have the same amount of >players< but an increased amount of online characters, so at least up to 18k.

Also, people would not only Multibox to level a second account. They would camp specific stuff, lets take Black Lotus, or rare mobs, world bosses or something else.

Another bunch of players has multiple accounts online to chat with account A and level with account B, or spying the other faction for PvP queues, or to chat with them, what ever reasons they have.

Multiboxing was actually allowed in the first weeks (or even months) of Nostalrius and got forbidden later on.

It has its reasons, but its not only to prevent Botting or Farming with that.

The Terms of Use state the exceptions for Multiboxing and everything that is not listed, is not automatically allowed.

If you want to tell a guild member what stuff you got on your guild bank, go in a major city and log your guild bank accout on, or log out of the main account.

[Diametra]

There's this too, and it looks as if you've already quoted the appropriate part:

Re: Reporting a Multi-Boxer
by Pottu » Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:51 am

Our rules for multiboxing are quite clear - it doesn't matter what you've used to in other games or on other servers.

You cannot have two clients online at the same time, EXCEPT for

1) Trading between your main and bank alt
or
2) Enchanting between your main and enchanting alt
or
3) Some other profession between your main and that profession alt

No PvP/BG-spying, no 60-following your leveling alt, no having your alt follow your 60 through instances or questing in the world.

If you see someone you suspect of multiboxing, please make a GM ticket (red question mark -> Stuck -> Still stuck, page a GM -> write the character names in the ticket, and we'll investigate.

****************

They've always included as exception to the rule the use of the words: bank or banking, unless this has changed recently, it is still acceptable. Oh...and I guess the implication always is that this would be done in a major city, because you couldn't trade between two accounts unless they were in the same place, and logging on to two accounts in seperate places would always lead to scrutiny. It also includes use of the word "main" from your main to your alt. But that is a word open to interpretation.

[Draenin]

What about
Using an alt to group up with and /camp out of a instance
Using an alt to gain access to raids by creating a raid of two
Using an alt to chat with people in cities/other guilds
And the alt does not leave the city. While you continue to play normally on your main account.

And then
Using an alt to trade and sell items and services in cities
Levelling an alt's profession inside of a city
Using an alt to advertise your dungeon/raid run
All done inside of a city. While you continue to play normally on your main account.

[Diametra]

Dunno. The wording doesn't cover ANY activity so long as you are in a city, it has pretty specific examples. As mentioned, it's not exhaustive and will be judged case by case. I think such things would come down to a matter of intent. I also think any GM would refuse to get that specific about what is not spelled out, but who knows, maybe you'll get an answer.

[Wrathran]

The rules are specific and clear:

You are allowed to login to two accounts only if both characters are in a major city (doesn't have to be the same city) and you are not using Auction House and you may only do the specific actions listed in the rules.

There are a few specific situations where you may have two characters in-game simultaneously, *only while both characters are in a major city*:

• Transferring items between accounts;
• Using professions, as long as no farming or material gathering is involved;
• Crafting, enchanting, banking and/or for trading purposes that does not include the Auction House.
• Portalling a second account only to and from major cities.

[lockpower]

They don't make this rule to prevent specifically Botting or Farming with Multiboxing.

Imagine if Multiboxing would be legal, which it ever was on Retail because monthly money for Bli$$ard, you don't pay for anything on Nostalrius, you can have up to 6 accounts and all of them cost 0$.

Lets say now you have players that Multibox for leveling their second accounts, which would be understandable at some point, but would have significant consequences.

I covered this in my OP, and said that I can understand why the rule would be said as it was to prevent that sort of abuse. Which, once again, is why I said, that the bank alt would stay in the city. It completely voids the counter example you gave.

If you want to tell a guild member what stuff you got on your guild bank, go in a major city and log your guild bank accout on, or log out of the main account.

Once again, this is not an ideal solution.

The rules are specific and clear:

You are allowed to login to two accounts only if both characters are in a major city (doesn't have to be the same city) and you are not using Auction House and you may only do the specific actions listed in the rules.

Thank you for re-linking the rules I already linked, very useful.

Let me once again say

The following rules are not meant to be exhaustive

So no, there is not a defined list of specific actions that are the only actions you are allowed to take. There is a NON EXHAUSTIVE list of actions which have already been approved.

[Wrathran]

"The following rules are not meant to be exhaustive"
- This refers to what you are not allowed to do

"There are a few specific situations"
- This refers to the things you are allowed to do.


There is in fact a specific list of actions you are allowed to take when you are multiboxing but there are not a specific list for what you are not allowed to do. As long as you stay to the specific list in the rules you are safe. If you ever do anything else it is probably not allowed even though it doesn't explicitly say so in the rules. That is why they use the wording "The following rules are not meant to be exhaustive" to cover all angles on the things you are -not- allowed to do.