TBC vs. Vanilla

[Norjak]

I thought TBC felt limited in terms of gear progression, at least for my Hunter - I was a pretty hardcore raider in those days, but some of the non-tier pieces I had for over a year because the only upgrades were available to only the top progression guilds. Then they released Sunwell badge gear, which made it too easy to get upgrades, I thought. I busted my ass on Kara for a very long time & finally got the Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle to drop. It felt great - then patch 2.4 came out & once the badge vendor became available on my server I was able to immediately grab the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes with the badges I had been saving. Yes it was a very solid upgrade, but I didn't have the same feeling of accomplishment. There were a fewf features towards the end of TBC that were the start of the trivialization process that has eroded the soul of the MMO in WoW...in Nostalrius, we were able to experience WoW when it was a true MMO & it felt great.

[Dr. Doom]

I strongly prefer Vanilla.

Some TBC instances were ok, but I much prefer the game mechanics in the original game. I still hold that the move towards AoE threat in TBC is what started the no-cc gogogo mentality that has plagued the game ever since.

Only changes that happened to AoE tanking were: Having thunder clap while on def stance (still with limited targets, just like bear form swipe) and making prot paladins more competitive AoE off tanks that didn't pitifully oom after casting 5 max rank consecrations (yet were too squishy to main tank by SWP).
Devastate was single target, just like Lacerate and Mangle.

If anything, I posit that crowd control was a bigger tool in TBC than what it was in Vanilla. Heroic level 70 dungeons were impossible to clear at the intended gear level without using CC. On the contrary I tanked all dungeon content in Nostalrius, and only spotted a very limited few occasions in dungeons where CC was necessary, and most of these were in boss fights to begin with.
The trash packs that put a big strain on dungeon groups in vanilla level 60 dungeons are very specific:

- The Dark Iron Highway packs of BRD, with one Captain that heals and uses divine shield, 1-2 medics that heal, and melee that root the tank in place with nets (red debuff, only cleansable by BoF).
- The first ogre pull in Dire Maul North, with 2 mages and 2 melee.
- The dragon whelp room in Scholomance where the handler + whelps were a bit too much to take at once.
- The first rooms of Scholomance could get out of hand due to summoned skeletons swarming or ghosts mana burning.
- The Scarlet Enclave in Stratholme with Battle Mages being a nightmare.
- The ghost room in Dire Maul West. Perhaps the most difficult one due to spell volleys, and undead being much more difficult to CC.
- The 8 mob pull in UBRS just before the bridge leading to Drakkisath.

For the rest, it was possible to just charge (or shoot if fearing body pull) and clear several elites at once, just by having dps focus fire. LBRS is like that for the most part. So is most of BRD, and Dire Maul East. Even Stratholme is very much doable with no CC (outside of the Scarlet Enclave), having sometimes held 2 gargoyles + 4 humanoids at once.

Compare to requiring CC in almost every single pack in, level 70 heroics with unparalleled 5 man difficulty on top of it, such as double sentinel pull in Arcatraz, or being required to enslave a demon for he would one shot tanks.

Or if we refer to raid trash. Compare things like ZG trolls, tigers, or even bats (who just require moving away from them), to the tactical challenge that were the packs of Magtheridon's lair.

There are some things I also prefer from Classic over TBC, but AoE threat and no CC is an unfair charge by any look at it.

[Dr. Doom]

I thought TBC felt limited in terms of gear progression, at least for my Hunter - I was a pretty hardcore raider in those days, but some of the non-tier pieces I had for over a year because the only upgrades were available to only the top progression guilds. Then they released Sunwell badge gear, which made it too easy to get upgrades, I thought. I busted my ass on Kara for a very long time & finally got the Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle to drop. It felt great - then patch 2.4 came out & once the badge vendor became available on my server I was able to immediately grab the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes with the badges I had been saving. Yes it was a very solid upgrade, but I didn't have the same feeling of accomplishment. There were a fewf features towards the end of TBC that were the start of the trivialization process that has eroded the soul of the MMO in WoW...in Nostalrius, we were able to experience WoW when it was a true MMO & it felt great.

In a way, I think TBC level of accesibility and catch up mechanics allow for a decent symbiose of casual content without hindering the game too much. Anything beyond that, just renders content pointless and dull, as proven by wotlk and onwards.

Badge gear allowed for a dose of progression for characters that couldn't afford to raid above T5.

[Docholy]

To be far the person who made the comment about AOE tank/threat dps would be right if they played when people had BT gear+ gear. But from TBC launch until around t6, Heroic dungeons needed CC and not AOE tactics.

[Jeniwyn]

I'm saying it was the start of the downward spiral in that regard. It was very prevalent when leveling up (with 60 raid gear though, so there is that) and sometimes later.

It wasn't as bad as it is now, obviously. I'm just saying that the mechanics were introduced to allow it and at times it worked. I prefer the mechanics not existing. I would still play a TBC server, and if I had the option I would probably after vanilla was cleared copy my char to a TBC server and keep going.

WotLK. I dunno. Ulduar was fun, other than that. Meh.

[Thefilth]

I thought TBC felt limited in terms of gear progression, at least for my Hunter - I was a pretty hardcore raider in those days, but some of the non-tier pieces I had for over a year because the only upgrades were available to only the top progression guilds. Then they released Sunwell badge gear, which made it too easy to get upgrades, I thought. I busted my ass on Kara for a very long time & finally got the Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle to drop. It felt great - then patch 2.4 came out & once the badge vendor became available on my server I was able to immediately grab the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes with the badges I had been saving. Yes it was a very solid upgrade, but I didn't have the same feeling of accomplishment. There were a fewf features towards the end of TBC that were the start of the trivialization process that has eroded the soul of the MMO in WoW...in Nostalrius, we were able to experience WoW when it was a true MMO & it felt great.

More limiting than vanilla? For hunters? I doubt that.
I hope Ashre'thul (which, by the way, never dropped for us, in spite of us having killed Chromaggus every reset since BWL release) and T2 being BIS for most of vanilla is the most severe example of gear limitation in wow history.

I don't think we had a Brutality Blade drop either. We had MC on farm for a full year. Can't beat the vanilla loot RNG. It wouldn't be vanilla without it, of course, but dammnnnn compared to retail where you get full BIS in a week, it was a drastic change.

Also, 40 people vs 2 loots. Certainly puts some value on epics!

[Hernia]

People like to say that Cataclysm killed the old world but few people talk about how patch 2.4 completely emasculated old content...

[Dr. Doom]

People like to say that Cataclysm killed the old world but few people talk about how patch 2.4 completely emasculated old content...

That was 2.3. It was a dreadful patch. XP gains on 1-60. Most old world elites removed, AV with reinforcements, and I think it was also the one that removed attunement requirements.

2.4 brought nerfs, more badge gear and so on.

[Dr. Doom]

To be far the person who made the comment about AOE tank/threat dps would be right if they played when people had BT gear+ gear. But from TBC launch until around t6, Heroic dungeons needed CC and not AOE tactics.

True, but same could be said of Classic. A T2+ 10 man would never need to use CC on UBRS.

[drabus]

I understand the discussion when it comes to good/bad features and whatnot, but it leads to another question...

I'm assuming Legacy servers would be the original "blizzlike" forms - the good with the bad. I wouldn't want them to re-imagine any of the expansions - just give me what they gave us the first go around. I enjoyed it all the way through WoTLK.

Am I the only one that thinks of Legacy (Vanilla, TBC, and WoTLK) in that way?