Black Lotus supply/demand problem

[Dervin20]

You can't take what things were priced at in 2005 to mean anything. People are much better at generating gold than they used to be, and have a better understanding of what is valuable.

[Dusith]

Here's some historic data on Black Lotus prices during retail Vanilla.

TL;DR: Non-Blizzlike population + non-Blizzlike spawn rates = non-Blizzlike economy. Is anyone really surprised by this?

Old Black Lotus page. (Thumb through the dates to see the median prices)
http://web.archive.org/web/200509201509 ... item=13468

Old Black Lotus prices (Note this is shortly after it was made non-bop) (~11g)
http://web.archive.org/web/200601240255 ... item=13468

Another source (again this is shortly after it was made non-bop) (~10-15g)
http://web.archive.org/web/200604071007 ... m/?i=14335

Later in vanilla (~25g)
http://web.archive.org/web/200610280201 ... m/?i=14335

It's like the limited restock vendor items all over again. At a certain point you have to accept the fact that bandaid fixes aren't enough -- the population is simply too big to be managed. You can increase the spawn rate as much as you want, but all you'll do is create a Black Lotus Cartel that controls the whole market.

Inflation here is way higher, because of 100000 chinese mages farming DME 24/7, Hunters farming Maraudon for vendor trash etc.

There is no way that you can compare it.

[Tfinger]

100g is a decent mount of change for a lot of people, and with the current trending it's going to get worse.


Sure, the big guilds that have been hording it don't care. They don't want the rest of the server to have access to the herbs so they'll be able to progress faster. Or they're making a killing off the herb itself.

There's is no reason the supply shouldn't be increased significantly other then pure greed. The whole "get more hardcore" is absolute bullshit when we're dealing with chinese farmers and 13k+ people who are competing for shit that 1-4 guilds MAX would be using back on retail. We've got significantly more that need this shit and eventually it'll just reach a critical point where guilds will fall apart as they wipe over and over again in progression due to not having the necessary flasks. When my guild downed nef for the first time we have nearly the entire raid flasked for the first and we one shot it that night. We wiped nonstop the weeks before. It's insane how much of a difference it makes.

Shit sucks man

[Konwizzle]

Here's some historic data on Black Lotus prices during retail Vanilla.

TL;DR: Non-Blizzlike population + non-Blizzlike spawn rates = non-Blizzlike economy. Is anyone really surprised by this?

Old Black Lotus page. (Thumb through the dates to see the median prices)
http://web.archive.org/web/200509201509 ... item=13468

Old Black Lotus prices (Note this is shortly after it was made non-bop) (~11g)
http://web.archive.org/web/200601240255 ... item=13468

Another source (again this is shortly after it was made non-bop) (~10-15g)
http://web.archive.org/web/200604071007 ... m/?i=14335

Later in vanilla (~25g)
http://web.archive.org/web/200610280201 ... m/?i=14335

It's like the limited restock vendor items all over again. At a certain point you have to accept the fact that bandaid fixes aren't enough -- the population is simply too big to be managed. You can increase the spawn rate as much as you want, but all you'll do is create a Black Lotus Cartel that controls the whole market.

Inflation here is way higher, because of 100000 chinese mages farming DME 24/7, Hunters farming Maraudon for vendor trash etc.

There is no way that you can compare it.

Right, like I said: The economy is completely distorted because the population is too big for the game world. If you add more water to a pool, does that mean you can fit more people? No, but the Nost devs seem to think it's possible.

"Hey, if we make this Black Lotus spawn 3x more often, there will be more on the market!" But instead, the one guild who's camping the spawns gets 3x as much while everyone else still gets shafted.

Kronos has a more Blizzlike population and guess what their Black Lotus price is? Same as retail: 20-25g.

[vinceyoung]

Out of curiosity what bosses do you NEED to flask for in AQ40? Naxx seems to be the only raid I remember where flasking was needed for some fights but I feel like you can do AQ40 without any major issues without using flasks except for maybe the main tank.

[Bearier]

100g is a decent mount of change for a lot of people, and with the current trending it's going to get worse.


Sure, the big guilds that have been hording it don't care. They don't want the rest of the server to have access to the herbs so they'll be able to progress faster. Or they're making a killing off the herb itself.

There's is no reason the supply shouldn't be increased significantly other then pure greed. The whole "get more hardcore" is absolute bullshit when we're dealing with chinese farmers and 13k+ people who are competing for shit that 1-4 guilds MAX would be using back on retail. We've got signification more that need this shit and eventually it'll just reach a critical point where guilds will fall apart as they wipe over and over again in progression due to not having the necessary flasks.

Shit sucks man

The only thing that sucks is the fact that Vanilla had a horrible consumable philosophy. There's a reason why Battle and Guardian elixirs were introduced and flask requirements were heavily nerfed in TBC. (Easier Fel Lotus, lower mats per flask, etc.) This is one of those things that makes playing in Vanilla Wow so difficult: when you sign up to play vanilla, you accept the terms that max consumables is a VERY difficult thing to maintain for a long time, because the amount of farming you'd to do is probably 10x the amount of time you'll even spend raiding.

People need to remember a few things:

-All of this content was cleared over 10 years ago. The fact that there's more information than ever on these fights, people are more conscious of true BiS sets, and have a ton of raiding experience most likely, there is little excuse to absolutely NEED max consumables, including flasks, to down every single fight.

-If your guild is truly requiring you to flask and max pot consum up for every single 'progression' fight, then maybe you should ask your guild where you're supposed to manufacture the time to acquire all the materials required for that to be a reality. A lot of GMs and guild councils need to reality check and realize this isn't retail. Most players these days are NOT going to be able to sacrifice the majority of their life to pick flowers or grind endlessly for funds to acquire all of these consums.

People need to chill the f*ck out and realize this is all remanufactured content and the experience should be for enjoyment's sake and not being a hardcore basement dweller who just has to get server first on a friggin private server. Like seriously, who gives a sh*t. It's friggin AQ40. There are two, maybe three (if you count Twin Emp monotony as challenging ) challenging fights in that entire raid. One of them is optional and doesn't even impede your path to C'thun.

I don't think it's a bad thing that there are a lot of guilds out there taking progression seriously, but realize that superior play and execution trumps injecting yourself with 100-500g worth of consumables every raid period.

Also, still want to know what flasks melee DPS are using.

[Ana]

Out of curiosity what bosses do you NEED to flask for in AQ40? Naxx seems to be the only raid I remember where flasking was needed for some fights but I feel like you can do AQ40 without any major issues without using flasks except for maybe the main tank.

Twins (tanks) and C'thun (everybody).
It's like... you CAN do those without flasks. But there's gonna be a lot of wipes. A LOT of wipes.

[Setup]

I've fought C'thun probably a hundred times, on retail, on feenix, on scriptcraft for a moment or two. I never used a titans on it, not as a DPS, not as a healer.

You don't need that much HP. Flasking just helps trivialize the fight.

Flasks are also good at helping people who are undergeared or wearing a lot of gear without stamina get up to the bare minimum totals they need.

[vinceyoung]

Yeah I haven't done C'Thun since retail vanilla but from what I remember my guild did not need to flask to kill him. Most of the raid damage can be mitigated by good positioning and using greater nature protection potions.

[davidnenn]

http://i.imgur.com/J1XlbQn.png