Spec-based elitism on a legacy server

[phyriel]

I can't relate to what you consider right way because 2005 way was deffo not a right way... back in the days were people would lean toward "this is optimal" because it made them use fancier texture gear instead of banana set (which is quite shit itself for healing, just a figure of speach). You ask me to point out which server is not custom, well "custom" is a figure of speech also, what i mean by it is "so insanely bugged and anti-blizzlike that I don't consider it a valid environment to produce any statements that would carry on toward more blizzlike or even Legacy servers".

I am always speaking the truth and i expect many meme/trolling against it because it is in the nature of people to deny the truth.

There is truth and "truth", ask yourself if what you consider truth isn't relative Cause the Chilton quote you brought actually makes it even more relative toward your predictions about ret dps. As your exp with it comes from 2005 (when ppl were uneducated nabs, I bet you included) and some "custom" (my idea of custom) server so according to the quote you brought, the best case scenario for your statement is MAYBE. But it's so against what we know so far about "optimal" that you'd need to produce way more data proving your statement if you're here to make us believe it, let alone consider it truth No homo mate but we were raiding too... A LOT

[smilkovpetko]

I can't relate to what you consider right way because 2005 way was deffo not a right way... back in the days were people would lean toward "this is optimal" because it made them use fancier texture gear instead of banana set (which is quite shit itself for healing, just a figure of speach). You ask me to point out which server is not custom, well "custom" is a figure of speech also, what i mean by it is "so insanely bugged and anti-blizzlike that I don't consider it a valid environment to produce any statements that would carry on toward more blizzlike or even Legacy servers".

I am always speaking the truth and i expect many meme/trolling against it because it is in the nature of people to deny the truth.

There is truth and "truth", ask yourself if what you consider truth isn't relative Cause the Chilton quote you brought actually makes it even more relative toward your predictions about ret dps. As your exp with it comes from 2005 (when ppl were uneducated nabs, I bet you included) and some "custom" (my idea of custom) server so according to the quote you brought, the best case scenario for your statement is MAYBE. But it's so against what we know so far about "optimal" that you'd need to produce way more data proving your statement if you're here to make us believe it, let alone consider it truth No homo mate but we were raiding too... A LOT

I can't relate to what you consider right way because 2005 way was deffo not a right way...

Definitely in 2005 Retribution Paladin Sets was not considered Items with "Warrior Stats" but items with all stats that bring in late patch Spell Damage with them. In fact using that way of play style that i got it bring me on that TOP 29 List Overall DPS in server that you call it "Custom" which apply for every single privacy server.

back in the days were people would lean toward "this is optimal" because it made them use fancier texture gear instead of banana set (which is quite shit itself for healing, just a figure of speach).

Unfortunately back in the days people experiment and try ways to optimize Maximum DPS unlike today "Paladin can't DPS" stubborn mindset people that think Paladin is not doing DPS and should only Heal so they don't even bother trying to Maximum DPS but smoking cigarets and Auto Attack which are clearly 100% not beneficial and noobish.

You ask me to point out which server is not custom, well "custom" is a figure of speech also, what i mean by it is "so insanely bugged and anti-blizzlike that I don't consider it a valid environment to produce any statements that would carry on toward more blizzlike or even Legacy servers".

Then again once again i request you to name me 1 server that apply to your rules and is not "Custom" according to your arguments.

There is truth and "truth", ask yourself if what you consider truth isn't relative.

Truth is not what you "believe" and denying anything that is brought to you as Evidence (which is your way sadly),truth in fact is what you have accomplished and experienced/done by yourself to prove your claim which is in fact my case.

As your exp with it comes from 2005 (when ppl were uneducated nabs, I bet you included).

I am sorry that this may hurt your ego by lot but Experience does not grow on tree and does not come from 1 year, but since 2005 up to today is 11 years Experience.
What you got as Experience regarding this Class and Spec? Only what you read on internet and by Auto Attacks or what people said?
I am sorry but 11 years Practice and Active Game on ground is something that you will always deny but it is in fact real experience that 1% maybe today have in this "Vanilla Paladins" .

and some "custom" (my idea of custom) server so according to the quote you brought, the best case scenario for your statement is MAYBE.

The only reason of this Spec-based Elitism and Min/Max Elitists today is for your sadness the "Custom" servers that exist around over so many years which contributed the most for the fallible point of view where every single Paladin Ability (or overall Hybrids Classes Abilities) in every single server does not work properly or they are insanely bugged by definition of worse DPS,worse scaling or not applying to the rules of the Paladin (or overall Hybrids) Blizzlike Abilities.

But it's so against what we know so far about "optimal".

The only way you know about Optimal is what you have read so far but you have no clue what will be Optimal and why Optimal is definition of false arguments about the Game itself.

Optimal in fact is Skilled players regardless of what Spec or Class the player play, he will bring the best and maximum contribution in the raid that with proper Pve "Retri spec" , he wont make mistakes and do his job instead smoking cigarets and Auto Atttack.

Dead Warrior will contribute 0 compare to Pro Skilled Retribution Paladin and when both are in the line of Pro Skilled there will be always 1 shot Kills regardless of what kind of the Boss fight is .

No homo mate but we were raiding too... A LOT .

Raiding A LOT does not prove anything regarding knowledge and skills about Class that you Never raided A LOT in their "Hybrid Spec".

[phyriel]

"Custom" which apply for every single privacy server.

To some more, to some less. Done arguing about this one, you're nitpicky about it so it proves me even more you're just bored like most of us and talk crap just for the sake of it.

Unfortunately back in the days people experiment and try ways to optimize Maximum DPS

Yes, I completely agree here, back in the days we used time to experiment and the result of that experiments is that you don't see "Lfm ret pala dps", derp.

Truth is not what you "believe" and denying anything that is brought to you as Evidence

Evidence from a server like yours, I'm sorry dude but its hardly any evidence for me, and in 2005 dps palas sucked ass same way as they do nowadays. Been there done that. I'm talking retail vanilla or atleast resembling it closely blizzlike private server not a custom bugged crap :*

truth in fact is what you have accomplished and experienced/done by yourself

And again ask yourself if its not relative;) Because I'll say it again, I'm not saying that you haven't done good dps on SOME server, I just said you haven't done and will NOT do it on blizzlike, in that regard your facts are not in accordance to matter discussed and thus not true :*

Only what you read on internet and by Auto Attacks or what people said?

Oh man... I just saw enough bubblegums in my years of raiding to know myself feel free to prove me wrong once we got proper blizzlike server again, be my guest

The only way you know about Optimal is what you have read so far but you have no clue what will be Optimal and why Optimal is definition of false arguments about the Game itself.

Erm I like thinking that general notion of what optimal is from retail vanilla will carry on to Legacy, or you're thinking that we will be rediscovering the game anew? I doubt that. For one I love hunters but to say they are in line with warrior/rogue/mage/warlock dps?, I'm not talking about being better than noobs (which apparently came out as your argument) but being better than stellar players of given class. In that regard I were playing perfectly but class just don't scale well enough into late game pve and thats it. Same applies to ret palas dps, I'm not saying they are utterly uber crap, they are fine for casual addition but since topic is about elitism, i'd rather have 1 more equally skilled rogue/warrior/mage/warlock than ret pala if dps was my ultimate goal in composing a raid.

[Blib]

Despite the top 5 Cheaters who got that Numbers with extreme cheating/abusing.

You have Top 30 Overall Ranks out of 10 000 players or 1000 high end Geared players.
What about the number 29?

1-10k "high end players" on Warsong? I have a hard time believing that since we barely had 5 "high end" guilds on nost which was way larger
I'm not here to argue with you, I know that won't lead anywhere. I just found it funny how you have to constantly lie or handpick your proof in order to prove your case.

Grats on being number 29 on garr 3 raid tiers past the point where it was relevant, it's all about the small wins I guess.

[smilkovpetko]

To some more, to some less. Done arguing about this one, you're nitpicky about it so it proves me even more you're just bored like most of us and talk crap just for the sake of it.

3 times you mention Custom Server and more than 3 times i requested you to name me 1 Server that is not Custom. More or less you were always avoiding to answer and now you end up answering this.

Yes, I completely agree here, back in the days we used time to experiment and the result of that experiments is that you don't see "Lfm ret pala dps", derp.

The main reason you don't see this is the top 3 Privacy Servers that came out as "Blizzlike" since 2007 up to today and main reason for this Fallible result is unfortunately the server you call it "Custom" which is sadly Feenix.

If there was no Feenix then there wouldn't be so epic fail working Abilities over 6 Years that contributed for the big Illusion to the mass population about Retribution Paladins.

In b4 Vanilla Paladins was used as any single spec in raids and groups as long as they "Buff" and "Cleanse" so you would see many times LF Paladin including LFM Retri.

Evidence from a server like yours, I'm sorry dude but its hardly any evidence for me, and in 2005 dps palas sucked ass same way as they do nowadays. Been there done that. I'm talking retail vanilla or atleast resembling it closely blizzlike private server not a custom bugged crap :*

O Really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovhRqAxnXqg
Description :

Uploaded on Nov 19, 2006

paladin first on sw-stat dps. boring fight but show that a paladin with a good weapon can DPS. thanks to trium vira and yaggdrasil guilds.
http://ctprofiles.net/2577315

And again ask yourself if its not relative;) Because I'll say it again, I'm not saying that you haven't done good dps on SOME server, I just said you haven't done and will NOT do it on blizzlike, in that regard your facts are not in accordance to matter discussed and thus not true :*

I am sorry but i consider myself as one of those that play Ret/Prot PVE as pure Vanilla Blizzlike if not the only one in this whole privacy servers community.
Speaking of the fact that you never monitoring my actions and debates regarding Paladins around Paladin Forums to know my Play Style compare to today's "knowledge" about them.

Oh man... I just saw enough bubblegums in my years of raiding to know myself feel free to prove me wrong once we got proper blizzlike server again, be my guest

I am always doing my best to prove Anti Hybrids wrong , i did the same back in Feenix when the day i joined there everyone was cheerleading and skyrocking like you against Paladins with moto they "can't tank" or "can't dps" . Similar thing i done in Nostalrius etc.

I will remain on what i've done and will do the same again in any sort of Blizzlike or non Blizzlike but results will always remain the same for me because i play properly the Specs and Class in PVE.
Haters will always hate and will remain Hating denying the truth , it is in human nature to deny the truth when they are wrong even when evidence is presented.

Erm I like thinking that general notion of what optimal is from retail vanilla will carry on to Legacy, or you're thinking that we will be rediscovering the game anew?

I think that my Youtube channel will explode with viewers and Retri/Prot Paladin fans once Legacy come. That at least is the Vision if Legacy ever happen and bring us old "pure vanilla" experience instead modified "new age pristine server".

For one I love hunters but to say they are in line with warrior/rogue/mage/warlock dps?.

Tell me how many Hunters are allowed to Full DPS and how many Hunter Bugs exist? Especially in Beastmaster spec.

I'm not talking about being better than noobs (which apparently came out as your argument) but being better than stellar players of given class.

That's why realmstat pop up with me being in top 29 of Overall Classes. What's the difference between number 10 and number 29 ? What's the difference between their Gear and my Gear?

In that regard I were playing perfectly but class just don't scale well enough into late game pve and thats it.Same applies to ret palas dps,

Here is what Paladins back in 2006 says :
http://web.archive.org/web/200611102258 ... 1828&sid=1
November 10 2006

Statistics and you: What do paladins need?

The most gear dependant class in the game, or the class that is made or broken most by the gear it is wearing, is the Warrior. But we’re second on that list!

What does that mean? We scale at same rate as Warriors Scale which mean we scale much more than any other Class except Warriors.

I'm not saying they are utterly uber crap, they are fine for casual addition but since topic is about elitism, i'd rather have 1 more equally skilled rogue/warrior/mage/warlock than ret pala if dps was my ultimate goal in composing a raid.

It is all about choice and believes, if you believe that you should not bring any Ret Pala then nobody force you, but saying that they are not Viable and saying that they are not optimal over other Classes then you are Utterly wrong.

WoW is designed to never use 1 Class only and since you go with spectrum of different Classes anything you deny with reason that is not Optimal then you are the delusional one here.

[phyriel]

Im sorry dude but this video is so ancient its not even funny breaking it down, for one when I see that neighbour warrior rotation i wanna drool. So I'll repeat again, don't post "evidence" that prove your point if it shows bunch of noobs and paladin in center that look good among them. It makes you look biased and fanboi.

If there was no Feenix then there wouldn't be so epic fail working Abilities over 6 Years that contributed for the big Illusion to the mass population about Retribution Paladins.

So there it is... we venture onto land of would've beens. I agree dude, If paladins were made to dps they would be obvious dps and not a dps played by 1 forum zealot that scrape some 2006 archive to prove his point and yet he still struggle to seal it... lol funny, paladin sealing it? funny? no? ok.

In b4 Vanilla Paladins was used as any single spec in raids and groups as long as they "Buff" and "Cleanse" so you would see many times LF Paladin including LFM Retri.

No, atleast not on 2 of my vanilla retail server. I guess we were quick to wisen up.

Similar thing i done in Nostalrius etc.

Show me your Nostalrius raidstats.

That's why realmstat pop up with me being in top 29 of Overall Classes. What's the difference between number 10 and number 29 ?

For Garr fight, and that data seems fishy, you guys have insanely good dps for that fight and it shows the fights took like 80+ seconds, with that dps it would be way more damage done than garr has. Its pretty common to me that dps sheet is huge if fights are short but its not the case here. Care to elaborate? And the difference between 10 and 29 is 19 is i'm right.

What does that mean? We scale at same rate as Warriors Scale which mean we scale much more than any other Class except Warriors.

No, it means they are gear dependant, not that they scale off it as good.

It is all about choice and believes, if you believe that you should not bring any Ret Pala then nobody force you, but saying that they are not Viable and saying that they are not optimal over other Classes then you are Utterly wrong. WoW is designed to never use 1 Class only and since you go with spectrum of different Classes anything you deny with reason that is not Optimal then you are the delusional one here.

This topic is about elitist approach and as I value your love toward singular class spec it won't make it better just because you'd like it to be that way (referring to your would've beens attempts). And you're goddamn right its about choices, I choose palas to be healbots because they are way better healers than dps. Show me evidence of what you say from Nostalrius raidstats. Because I can show you a lot of evidence showing how its not there;P its rogues/warriors/mages/warlocks hunters are super far behind and even those are tryhards and rets don't even exist. Why? because they are bad. There is no conspiracy against your beloved spec, its as you said 2nd most gear dependant class that scale off it (imo as 6th dps) so no serious guild will feed ret palies a gear they could otherwise give to warriors.

[smilkovpetko]

Im sorry dude but this video is so ancient its not even funny breaking it down, for one when I see that neighbour warrior rotation i wanna drool. So I'll repeat again, don't post "evidence" that prove your point if it shows bunch of noobs and paladin in center that look good among them. It makes you look biased and fanboi.

So now you decide to deny the Video Evidence from 2006 that goes against your Argument?
You just proved my point about it's in human nature to deny the Truth.

So there it is... we venture onto land of would've beens. I agree dude, If paladins were made to dps they would be obvious dps and not a dps played by 1 forum zealot that scrape some 2006 archive to prove his point and yet he still struggle to seal it... lol funny, paladin sealing it? funny? no? ok.

So now i am the only Zealot that resurrect some old Archive with pure Evidence to prove my claim?
Only because it is contrary to your believes doesn't mean that you can "Rewrite" the History.

No, atleast not on 2 of my vanilla retail server. I guess we were quick to wisen up.

To prove my claim i gave you Video, but what is your Evidence for your claim? I request you to give me 1 at least.

Show me your Nostalrius raidstats.

Now you decide to worry about "Custom Server" ? What if i told you that Nostalrius was nowhere close to "Pure Blizzlike" and the Paladin Abilities was working here completely irrelevant/different to what they used to work in Blizzard.

I for sake of the "Custom Server" i bet in 1000 $ that Nostalrius was Pure NON Blizzlike Server.

Therefore it is the real reason i never attended or worried about Raids at all.
Not that i couldn't but i wouldn't like to do it at all as i never did.

No, it means they are gear dependant, not that they scale off it as good.

Because you decide to deny the scale, define me your point of view about "Gear Dependant" .

This topic is about elitist approach and as I value your love toward singular class spec it won't make it better just because you'd like it to be that way (referring to your would've beens attempts). And you're goddamn right its about choices, I choose palas to be healbots because they are way better healers than dps.

Only because you choose that way does not mean that it is true.

Show me evidence of what you say from Nostalrius raidstats.Because I can show you a lot of evidence showing how its not there;P its rogues/warriors/mages/warlocks hunters are super far behind and even those are tryhards and rets don't even exist.Why? because they are bad. There is no conspiracy against your beloved spec, its as you said 2nd most gear dependant class that scale off it (imo as 6th dps) so no serious guild will feed ret palies a gear they could otherwise give to warriors.

Same question for the previous request : What make you think that Nostalrius is Blizzlike Server or Server where Raidstats are important at all ?

Or server to compare with Blizzlike at all.

[zmandude24]

That's the way vanilla WoW works, but I wouldn't really care too much about your spec unless it's a raid. I would tell people who intend to tank on bear that they need to reroll warrior if they want to tank in the raids. If they are doing that in dungeons, they are simply being retarded. Sure I will take a rogue or fury warrior over a kitty for the melee dps spot in a 5 man given the choice, but if there is no rouge or dps warrior that whispers me for the spot, I will invite the kitty.

[phyriel]

Your evidence is not credible, your statements are false, your paladin zealotry is funny, you said you've done the same on nostalrius so i was curious to see if you're able to produce same evidence on Nostalrius as a base/common ground as I was playing here also. Btw I'm not obliged to prove you are wrong and go as far as handpick bullshit dps meters to prove you wrong (you'd just say that ret pala in this screenshot was bad and you would be on top of that list lawl so how is that a proof anyway), you are obliged to prove you're right because its you that come up with riddiculous idea that ret pala is a valid dps in elitist environment which is purely false. Come up with more believable evidence, thats all i got to say. Even tho I don't need evidence because I know how it is, you're a feenix achiever and thats about it but its fun to see you struggle and change the subject all the time:P

Same question for the previous request : What make you think that Nostalrius is Blizzlike Server or Server where Raidstats are important at all ?

Or server to compare with Blizzlike at all.

Erm the fact that it was the biggest most succesful server since retail. So if it was that succesful it must've resembled what people were looking for, and since server was advertised as blizzlike and people that were looking for blizzlike sticked with it it kinda proves it was closest to blizzlike since vanilla. Btw now you avoid answering question becuase Nostalrius data clearly makes your theory about ret dps false so you choose to make biggest / most succesful server since vanilla not credible ground for statements because it doesn't match yours time to end this fail party. Peace out.

[snawfu]

So now you decide to deny the Video Evidence from 2006 that goes against your Argument?
You just proved my point about it's in human nature to deny the Truth.

It literally says in the end of the video: "Don't forget to be a healer most of the time"

Not to mention the fact he is doing 340~dps or whatever it is since the fight takes so fucking long and there's a hunter competing for the 1st spot.

If you can find footage of a top guild at the time like Death and Taxes, Memento Mori etc with a paladin topping meters you'll find your evidence more compelling.

Guilds as shit as in the video you posted didn't even exist on Nostalrius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEs9coe5XRg
You should've posted this video instead, it's from retail vanilla; shows a literal dps race and also reaffirms what everyone already knew about paladin dps.